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Can anyone explain this - OT Sensory diet and sleep issues

(30 Posts)
Dev9aug Thu 11-Oct-12 01:16:11

We have been seeing a cranial osteopath for a number of weeks for ds1 for sleep related issues and it has helped a lot. He was also seen by the OT round about the same time and was prescribed at least 2x30 min sessions of OT every day to help develop his vestibular skills.

We have noticed that on days we had to lay the sensory diet off because he has had an adjustment with the osteopath, he sleeps better. On days when he had his sensory diet, his sleep is very poor, waking up in the middle of night and taking ages to fall asleep again. He needs the adjustments and he also needs the sensory diet so we are kind of flummoxed really.

Has anyone got experience of this and explain why this happens. how did you resolve it in the end if you did? TIA

SallyBear Fri 12-Oct-12 17:13:33

Dev. DS is a toe walker, and it is purely a sensory thing with him. I make him walk on as many different surfaces as I can and keep telling him "Feet down!" It works, sort of!!

madwomanintheattic Fri 12-Oct-12 16:55:12

They do, but it depends on the reason and if anything else might be better (ie, AFOs, if it's to do with tightening or spasticity rather than sensory)

Dd2 had neuro soles in hers - essentially they have a slightly different shaped base with a strategically placed bump (technical term) which from what I can gather encourages more normal gait, or foot placement.

Mostly they are prescribed for stability though, I think. Dd2 had issues with stability, and very unstable ankles (feet rolled inwards) as well as the neuro stuff.

It's worth a try though. I think for predominantly sensory toe walkers there may be very little benefit, unless there are other reasons alongside which heighten the tendency?

Yes, you can buy them privately, but tbh you are better off trying kickers first. If the PCT will allow you to order through them, but pay yourself, it knocks off a few quid as well. They are pricey. (We sometimes ordered two different pairs at the same time, one paid for by the PCT, one by us, but the PCT get much better rates than private customers, usually.)

Dev9aug Fri 12-Oct-12 16:47:13

Do Piedro boots help with toe walkers and if they do, can I get them privately. NHS won't refer and Piedro won't sell them to me directly.

Dev9aug Fri 12-Oct-12 16:45:55

I wanted to get Piedro boots for ds1 when he was referred to orthotics, was told that we don't give Piedro boots any more as there is no proven benefit. in the next breath he said,. But you could try ankle boots from timberland/cat etc, they might help. [hmmm]

madwomanintheattic Fri 12-Oct-12 14:45:48

Oh, that's interesting. We've been in Canada for over three years, so I hadn't realized.

SallyBear Fri 12-Oct-12 14:37:04

Official Piedro stockist here

SallyBear Fri 12-Oct-12 14:33:50

Oh I'm not sure Hazeyjane! My kids have all got skinny feet. I have always been very tough about shoes that fit properly. Mine all had Startrite until DS4 came along....

Elefanten were great shoes, but I know that a few years ago they went out of business. I think that they may have started up again.

madwomanintheattic Fri 12-Oct-12 14:32:09

Ah, that's reasonably common with poss genetic stuff, I think! Not sure tbh, but worth checking. We had the opposite problem - dd2's feet were really really narrow. Even as a schoolie, Clark's had nothing, so we had to buy everything from the indie. I have spent a bleeding fortune on shoes. And none of them for me.

See if you can find a good independent kids shoe store. We used to drive 45 minutes to one of ours (and then moved and there was one ten minutes away) but it is definitely worth it. Much more variety in size, especially width fittings, and a lot more choice of supportive boots for tinies.

hazeyjane Fri 12-Oct-12 14:28:29

Do Kickers come in 3 HH size?? Ds has the smallest fattest feet I've ever seen!!

(sorry for going off on a Piedros tangent)

madwomanintheattic Fri 12-Oct-12 14:26:25

Heh heh. I was just about to post and say I've lost count of the number of times I've lost my rag completely and dragged the child to the store and bought kickers. grin. There's only so many times you can fall over in a day because your shoes are too small and you've got no new ones. <sigh>

Up until three-ish, we had a fab indie shoe store that had a large range of European ankle boots (elefanten etc) which were just perfect, and without the x week wait. We always got Piedros as well, but it was nice to have a choice to try on! The store staff were great, too.

(We had beautiful boots. <sigh>)

The flowery kickers were fantabulous, too.

TirednessKills Fri 12-Oct-12 14:21:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SallyBear Fri 12-Oct-12 14:18:24

I gave up with Piedros as our Orthotic man was shite at fitting properly. We buy DS Kickers. I put the tray from Piedros into the kickers. I rang the Piedro suppliers and they sent me the trays foc.

hazeyjane Fri 12-Oct-12 14:00:54

I'm glad I found this thread, as I had just assumed the sensory diet thing was food related too - and considering ds eats about 5 foods, mostly biscuit related, I didn't even bother finding out about it!

Sally, 'fortunatelyhmm' the ot and physio haven't bothered to sort out ds's next appointment, and aren't returning my calls, so we haven't had any dealings at all - unfortunately, ds is desperate for his new piedro boots!

SallyBear Fri 12-Oct-12 10:57:50

Hazeyjane As soon as I started reading it, I remembered this thread. I also remember feeling very upset for you, and did again re reading it all.

hazeyjane Fri 12-Oct-12 10:42:55

Sally this was the thread. smile

Dev9aug Fri 12-Oct-12 10:36:04

Sorry sally I meant silverfrog mentioned about hopscotch on Hazey's thread.

SallyBear Fri 12-Oct-12 10:23:48

Thank you Dev. I'm FB friends with Hazeyjane so I will ask her about it. smile

Dev9aug Fri 12-Oct-12 09:16:27

sally I should add that DS was seen by NHS OT few months ago and on advice from silverfrog I took him for an OT assessment at Starjumpz,(do you remember hazeyjanes thread where she first mentioned hopscotch) the difference in the assessment and recommendations between both couldn't have been greater. I don't know the staff at your Ds school so don't know what they are like, but for us paying for an assessment has def been worth it.

Dev9aug Thu 11-Oct-12 18:58:35

grin sallybear

Thanks shazian I will have a look at the weighted vest. DS1 had a assessment by an OT last month for which we only had the report yesterday and the program starts next week so we will see how it goes before investing in one as we probably wont get one through NHS.

I have read about your DS previously and felt very frustrated on your behalf, I can't imagine how you must be feeling back then. I am glad to hear that he is doing

shazian Thu 11-Oct-12 18:25:39

Dev9 how about a weighted vest, my ds age 11 has sensory issues as well as sleep issues. Right now he is in hospital for various problems, mostly sensory related, he is there for 12 weeks to be reassessed. They have had great results from the sensory vest which he wears for up to 40 mins at a time 3/4 times per day, they say he is a lot calmer, more relaxed and in general a lot happier. Obviously not all from the vest however is working along with other input. His sleeping was terrible some nights only 2 hours at most, he is now sleeping most nights from 9/10 through to 7am... unheard of. However he is now on melatonin and clonidine (this helps with ADHD and sleep issues)

SallyBear Thu 11-Oct-12 18:14:49

dev9aug blushblushblushblush
I am off to google out of sync child and OT sensory diet. We have OT's at DS's Special School so I will ask them what a Sensory Diet is and would it benefit him in the long run. You see, you're never too long in the tooth to learn grin

Mopandbucket Thu 11-Oct-12 17:50:05

Also, read 'out of sync child' - very approachable and easy to understand concepts of sensory processing

Mopandbucket Thu 11-Oct-12 17:48:26

It's the swings, I think. Maybe he needs to build up to that level of vestibular input. I would think (and obviously I don't know your dc) that if he is sensitive to vestibular stuff it should be combined with heavy, muscle work. How about trampolining as you get both proprioceptive and vestibular input? Play in the park is good, climbing, jumping etc. if you do swings, do it earlier in day and follow with 'heavy' work .
Re weighted blanket, deep pressure good but also active muscle work, as your OT suggests.
It's called a sensory diet because the principle is the same; the balance of sensory inputs should be just right to keep you healthy (as in a well balanced diet).

Dev9aug Thu 11-Oct-12 16:28:47

madwoman we have got a weighted blanket, he won't go near one. On fact, at night he has a jumper and heater on in the room as he won't tolerate blankets. I will try that again.

The adjustments do make a difference, he definitely sleeps better for couple of days after, but then we start soft play/swings and his sleep goes to pot.

madwomanintheattic Thu 11-Oct-12 16:14:09

I also wonder if it is the adjustments themselves that are improving sleep? Rather than excluding the sensory stuff? Could be a combination of both. I know dd2 always slept like a log on the days she had cranio. Like a log.

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