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Excluded from school again!!!!!

(31 Posts)
CatWantsPeopleFood Mon 08-Oct-12 16:13:15

I had a thread here before with more of the background stuff but I can't find it anymore, so I'm starting a new one. Not sure what it will achieve but I need to vent I am so angry with the school right now because they have excluded DD (age 6) again today. I know its not their fault and they are following procedures etc and what DD did was wrong but the exclusion is not going to stop her behaviour and is quite likely (going on past experience) to make it slightly worse in the short term as well. angrysad

wasuup3000 Mon 08-Oct-12 16:37:54

Did they give you a letter detailing why they excluded him?

EllenJaneisstillnotmyname Mon 08-Oct-12 16:46:47

Does she have a statement? If not, then any official exclusions should be ammunition for you to get one. If she does have one, then her support should be trying to analyse her behaviour for triggers and pre-empting it. Excluding her for behaviour caused by her SN (?) isn't very constructive.

CatWantsPeopleFood Mon 08-Oct-12 16:50:21

Yes its almost the same letter word for word as last time- aggressive and violent- and I've heard what happened from the teachers viewpoint-she got upset when a child did or said something and when the teacher tried to take DD away from the situation, she hit and scratched the teacher sad

Veritate Mon 08-Oct-12 16:52:07

If they're excluding her for behaviour which is the result of a diagnosed disability and they're not take proper steps to head it off, it's disability discrimination.

bochead Mon 08-Oct-12 17:05:41

Multiple exclusions at this age are evidence of a setting failing to meet a child's needs. It's VERY hard for an LEA to refuse a statement under these conditions, you can also use it as evidence to push for the appropriate medical referrals.
I found IPSEA to be an absolute godsend when in a similar position with an undiagnosed child - do check out their site as the model letters are amazingly helpful and they have a page with a nice neat "process" to follow from here in.

CatWantsPeopleFood Mon 08-Oct-12 19:44:37

No she doesn't have a statement but a couple of weeks ago the school told me they wanted 'get one for her' I had to sign a form agreeing to this- but I don't really know much about that process only that it takes a long time. she doesn't have any diagnosed disability, so I guess it would just count as bad behaviour, even though I have asked before (it is written on her IEP) that they need to look at what causes it at school.

IMO excluding her won't solve the problem. Its highly unlikely that it will stop her behaving the same way again in future. When she behaves that way she doesn't seem to stop to think about anything so the possibility of getting excluded again won't enter her mind at all. She also won't make the link between bad behaviour at school yesterday with not going to school tomorrow, even when I tell her she thinks that because she said sorry afterwards thats the end of it. In fact she is still in total denial about not going to school tomorrow. I've lost count how many times I said she would be going to the childminder's house in the morning until I collet her. As of bedtime tonight she was still insisting that tomorrow is tuesday, tuesday is a school day, so she is going to school tomorrow. I'm not looking forward to tomorrow morning sad

cansu Mon 08-Oct-12 20:22:48

It must be very upsetting and very worrying for your dd to be excluded at such a young age. What do you think the causes of this behaviour are? Do you see this kind of behaviour at home too? I think that school do have to follow their own discipline procedures for violent behaviour but I would be seeking a meeting to discuss what they think are the issues involved and perhaps seeking some form of pastoral support plan for your dd. if they are applying for a statement they must feel your dd has some form of special need and are at least acknowledging that they are struggling to meet her needs. You might find it useful to apply for a statutory assessment as her parent as parents have the right to appeal which schools don't have if the LA refuse to assess. What have school been doing thus far to manage her behaviour?

CatWantsPeopleFood Mon 08-Oct-12 20:54:03

I have no idea what causes the behaviour, she knows its wrong, but nothing seems to stop it happening again and again. Its all mainly at school. We have had a few milder outbursts in the past couple of years at home but nothing like what occurs at school, in severity or frequency. at home if she is upset about something she will just cry and/or complain about it a lot until the problem is solved or else she will go to have some time out in her bedroom.

She has had these problems at school since reception year and none of the school's strategies have ever made much of an impact. When DD went into year 2 this september they decided she didnt need to have the extra TA to work with her most of the time that they had tried last year. That lasted 2 days. They then put a TA in with her every afternoon. The week before last they also got another adult from 'the behaviour team' to work with DD most mornings. I thought they were finally getting somewhere as no major incidents since then until today. Now they have mentioned needing someone to be with her at lunchtimes too as the last 2 (including today) incidents have happened in the dinner hall. So from nobody to fulltime 1 to 1 within a couple of weeks, although again today the headteacher stressed how much the school were paying for this 'out of their own money'

cansu Mon 08-Oct-12 21:09:04

I think that you need to definitely apply for statutory assessment for emotional and behavioural difficulties. I would ensure that all exclusions are documented as exclusions and keep a log of every incident. It might be worth asking school to do this and to have it sent home each day so you can copy it. This will help you to gather evidence. School obviously can apply for assessment but the la often find it easier to refuse the school as they can't automatically appeal. If you go on ipsea's website there are sample letters to use. I would also be very upfront with school and say I think that dd obviously needs more support and this is why I am applying for a statutory assessment. I think the head is probably stressing the money aspect to emphasise that they are taking some action but the cost isn't your problem. I would however try to be supportive of the schools efforts as you need to keep some dialogue oing whilst you try to get more support in place for your dd.

CatWantsPeopleFood Mon 08-Oct-12 22:21:02

I do try to be supportive but it does really make me angry when they talk about money as she makes it sound as if she is paying out of her own purse and I should me grateful for it some how as if they shouldn't really be using the money for educating my child but are doing it as a favour to me!!!!!

cansu Mon 08-Oct-12 22:49:46

You are absolutely right that she should not be telling you about the money as tis isn't your concern. I have had people tell me about how much my dd and ds cost but I tune them out and look blank when they tell me this. She is being unprofessional by doing this. She may be doing this to assure you that they are trying to help but that may well be an over charitable interpretation! Focus on the outcome and grit your teeth. I am very good at asking difficult questions in a pleasant, smiley way!

CatWantsPeopleFood Tue 09-Oct-12 19:58:44

Thanks for the advice, I'm feeling a bit calmer about it today. I just need to keep it together for the meeting at school tomorrow and not start shouting or crying!

alison222 Tue 09-Oct-12 20:12:53

Has she been seen by any professionals? an Educational psychologist for example?
You can also ask the school to arrange this. If they are going to apply for a statement they will need to do it anyway.

Also if you apply for statutory assessment then there is a clear timetable about what is going on and you have some control over the process. If school have indicated their willingness, offer to do it instead if they haven't already as this will make sure you know that action is being taken

CatWantsPeopleFood Tue 09-Oct-12 20:46:53

No she hasn't been seen by an Educational Psychologist although I have been told several times that they were referring DD to one. Again I was told this takes a long time and at one point I was told another person was taking over so DD would need to get put back on a new list (this sounded really dodgy to me and I believe it to be a complete lie actually). Yesterday the headteacher told me DD had seen an educational psychologist in year 1. When I asked why I knew nothing about that and was never told, she backtracked and said actually the EP had just observed her in class for a few minutes while assessing a completely different child!

alison222 Tue 09-Oct-12 22:39:06

I think that you actually have to sign a permission to allow the EP to assess your child so if it had been done you would know about it unless you had aver signed a blanket permission for something else like this at school.
I was told by my school to apply for the statement as then they would have to bump my DS up the list of people waiting to see the EP. (He had been seen several years before and in the event she just rehashed her original report and didn't re-assess or re-visit him.)
In order to apply for statutory assessment it helps if you have evidence of need, as they use professional reports to support this, although I know of someone who applied, and all the assessments were rushed through in the assessment process to provide evidence for it - so I do know it can be done that way around too.

CatWantsPeopleFood Tue 09-Oct-12 23:15:09

Only thing I have signed is a form agreeing to the school trying to get a statement for DD and also another one consenting to a person from something called the 'behaviour team' to come into school to observe and work with DD in class. I'm still not totally sure who or what this team is. I'm assuming they are a council department of some sort but would their involvement be part of the statementing process or is it separate? I did find out one of the people that came from there to the school was a speech and language therapist (DD has never had any problems with speech, actually quite the opposite) that all children referred to them get assessed by as routine. I have been told she has written a report that I will get sent a copy of anyway.

mariamma Tue 09-Oct-12 23:23:00

Send the statutory assessment request yourself if it's not posted already. School might yet take a few weeks, as they have a load of hoops to go through which don't apply to parents.

Triggles Wed 10-Oct-12 07:30:49

Just a few suggestions - start the SA process yourself. It doesn't sound as if the school is being totally upfront with you - first telling you she's been seen by an EP (which should have had direct written permission from you, so if she was - which I doubt - they've already broken rules). The sooner the better. Make sure you keep any and all paperwork from the school, and make sure this exclusion is in writing so you have it.

Get your DD a referral to the paediatrician (either through GP or school nurse), who can then assess her more thoroughly and either note any issues or refer her to CAMHS for further assessment (depending on who deals with dx'ing in your area - it's the paed for this age in our area, but apparently in some areas it's CAMHS). Do NOT rely on the school EP for this, it's not their job to diagnose.

Have a meeting with the SENCO and HT. Ask them exactly what they are doing (and make suggestions as needed) about her needs and how they are supporting her. Discuss any specific behavioural problems and agree on specific plans for how to handle them. Remind them that budgeting isn't your concern - your concern is your DD and how she is being supported so that she can access the curriculum (and remain in school without needing exclusion). It's also helpful to remind them that there ARE options for them to apply for funding to help pay for these resources (1 to 1, etc), and the SENCO should have this info (as it's her job to deal with this). DS2's MS primary paid for his FT 1:1 for an entire year prior to his statement going through out of their own budget, applying for assistance with the funding through some organisation that was very cooperative.

CatWantsPeopleFood Wed 10-Oct-12 10:04:39

TBH I am really confused and I'm struggling to cope with all of this stuff. I want to do what is best for DD, but I'm not sure what that is or how to achieve it. When I have tried in the past to speak with the school I feel as if it comes across wrong and doesn't help the situation at all. I can't see that any progress has been made in the last 2 years with regards to her behaviour at school, yet when I say this I am told the processes take a long time and not to expect things to change over night. I really don't know what to do sad

Triggles Wed 10-Oct-12 10:24:46

It is confusing and can be stressful. We've all gone through that, so you'll find that most on this board understand how you're feeling.

One of the benefits of putting things in writing is that you can stop and think about how you want to say things, plus it gives you a paper trail for future use.

Rule of thumb (for me anyway) is that I will not allow myself to be rushed into a decision by the school, and I always say something (politely but firmly) if I am not happy with how something is progressing or how something has been handled. Don't let yourself get rattled by it all. You WILL get through this, and you will get more comfortable speaking out to the school and dealing with this stuff as you get more experience with it.

Triggles Wed 10-Oct-12 10:24:55

It is confusing and can be stressful. We've all gone through that, so you'll find that most on this board understand how you're feeling.

One of the benefits of putting things in writing is that you can stop and think about how you want to say things, plus it gives you a paper trail for future use.

Rule of thumb (for me anyway) is that I will not allow myself to be rushed into a decision by the school, and I always say something (politely but firmly) if I am not happy with how something is progressing or how something has been handled. Don't let yourself get rattled by it all. You WILL get through this, and you will get more comfortable speaking out to the school and dealing with this stuff as you get more experience with it.

Triggles Wed 10-Oct-12 10:25:39

argh... sorry for double post - silly site said "offline" and then said it hadn't posted. Obviously it had. hmm

CatWantsPeopleFood Wed 10-Oct-12 11:15:58

i think getting stuff put in writing is the first thing I should ask for. I do have some problems with verbal communication (I get accommodations made at college for this) like not being able to find the right words to express myself in conversations and I need to see things written down to fully understand them e.g I need instructions/action plans in writing rather than given verbally otherwise they just saty in my head as a kind of 'word jumble' not making sense.

I want to be careful about how I word a request for everything from school in writing though. I am worried that is I diclose the problems I have they will think I am stupid ( actually they probably think much worse about me by now) or that I am unfit to parent my DC or have somehow caused DD's problems because of my own.

mariamma Wed 10-Oct-12 14:54:22

Baffle them with science.

I need to communicate by email because of 'a type of complex hearing difficulty' or even 'a speech/language disorder'.

Then smile sweetly and say you don't like discussing your medical hx with strangers.

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