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4 Year Old with SEN excluded again!

(19 Posts)
Mamaux Thu 06-Oct-11 17:18:19

In desperate need of some advise. My 4 year old boy has been having issues for over a year now. He has been expelled from 2 nursery settings, started school in Sept and after week 2 was excluded from there too. We are dealing with all the relevant agencies CAHMS etc who are trying to help but things are taking too long. He is on waiting lists to see Speech and Language and a place called ''terraces'' were his mental health will be assessed. I understand his behaviour can be extremely challenging and agree that he does need 1-2-1 support. The trouble is I am a single working parent and have now used all my holiday and cannot afford to take any more time off unpaid. Nowhere seems to want to help me due to the fact I work. Any advice would be gratefully received smile

madwomanintheattic Thu 06-Oct-11 17:46:46

why was he expelled?

in your shoes, i would be contacting the area inclusion coordinator at the lea or whoever your contact is concerning the exclusion (permanent or temporary until funding is found?) and discussing options. it's tricky because he is being put through the system, albeit slowly. i would definitely be making noise at the lea until the funding is found for 1-1 support in whatever setting is deemed appropriate. your son is being let down.

what have they got in place at the moment as far as education is concerned? are you he-ing whilst you use up your holiday time?

have you spoken to ipsea or any of the specialist education advisors?

madwomanintheattic Thu 06-Oct-11 17:47:21

(and grr at no-one wnating to help you becasue you work. ain't that the truth)

sickofsocalledexperts Thu 06-Oct-11 17:58:38

You need to get a statement, which is the best way of getting one -to-one help. You can apply yourself, and reference his two expulsions by the age of 4 - which, even without a diagnosis, is proof that he needs extra help i school (which i s whole point of statement). If you look on mumsnet on right of this page, there is a section called Statutory Assessments which tells you the next steps. Poor you, what a nightmare for you.

unpa1dcar3r Thu 06-Oct-11 18:02:00

Re your employment. You do have legal rights as a carer for your son. you can find loads of statutes in all sorts of acts re caring roles.
Try equal pops for a start, also site and find employment for carers info...
Might be worth googling Sharon Coleman too as she took her employers to court of european rights when they discriminated against her for having a disabled son. The social security act got amended due to her case.
Just saying, in case you need more time off etc, although it's discretionary whether they pay you for it.

Can't believe a 4 yr old has been expelled! For goodness sake. Does he have any sort of diagnosis? would you consider special needs school?

tradesmansentrance Thu 06-Oct-11 19:18:15

I just cannot see the point of excluding children this young. Is there an expectation that he'll sit at home and think 'Gosh I really must behave differently tomorrow. This exclusion is a really big deal'? It's so illogical it makes me want to slap random imaginary local authority people. If the teachers are saying they cannot manage his behaviour, he needs an assessment and support. Poor you. Every sympathy.

unpa1dcar3r Thu 06-Oct-11 21:09:06

He is already being labelled in a bad way and if they keep doing this he will live up to that label! Not knowing what exactly he's done it's easy to be shocked at his exclusion BUT it is shocking that a child so young, a baby for goodness sake, already has this stigma to carry through his school life because teachers don't know how to handle him!
I reckon I might be a tad furious about it. And I would most definitely be questioning their motives for his exclusion and why they let whatever the situation was, escalate into something warranting (in their opinion) his exclusion. Where were they when it was happening?????

Mamaux Thu 06-Oct-11 22:07:31

Thanks for all your messages, they are greatly appreciated. The 1st nurseries exact words were 'he is a danger to staff and children''. I feel thats a little harsh considering he is a baby, and MY baby at that. He is a very big lad for his age (7-8 year old clothing), so I feel that some of his behaviours are normal for his age but increased due to his size. At home he is the most caring, gentle child. It seems to be educational settings were the problem lies. They are mentioning autism (possible aspergers) at the moment but he is absoloutely being labelled very early on. The teachers have said that he is so challenging it is effecting the education of all the other children with whom they have a duty of care. I do wonder where their duty of care to my son is as he is just as entitled to an education as the rest of them. My work have been really good up to this point but are now getting frustrated (which I can understand), as im never there. Fingers crossed he will be statemented soon. Him being a very clever child however has linked his 'bad behaviour' with being able to spend time with me which I dont think helps either. Grrrr! Feels so good to have a rant smile

Agnesdipesto Thu 06-Oct-11 22:14:29

IPSEA is a charity that can help with legal advice or the Childrens Legal Centre.

You need to apply for a statement. Download and get a free hard copy of the SEN Code of Practice. There is info in there about young children with severe and complex needs only needing one overarching report and also about emergency placements.

I don't know what dx you are expecting but you can look at local special schools and can also look at private schools or ABA (not just for autism also for behaviour issues).

There are lots of Acts eg Childcare Act, Equality Act which bang on about right to childcare for a disabled child / rights as a carer. You could also contact disabled childrens team at social services and ask for a carers assessment for you and a disabled child assessment. Also alert your MP

Contact Parent Partnership for info they are not always that fantastic or that independent of council but should be ok in an exclusion situation. You can appeal exclusion from school. Info on IPSEA website about exclusions. I don't know if LA have to put in education as under 5 eg home tutor

If I were you I would be looking at any special schools or units including in the private sector.

You can take unpaid parental leave. You could then apply for DLA, Carers allowance and tax credits not what you want but you may as well get the applications off just in case.

You should put in writing to the SEN officer at the council the need for an urgent placement due to you being at risk of losing your job. That way if they take ages you can at least complain about it afterwards and try and get compensation.

If you have a local carers charity they often help you with DLA forms etc

Littlefish Thu 06-Oct-11 22:14:52

Exactly what are the behaviours that have caused him to be excluded from the two nurseries and the school?

Has the statementing process been started yet? Who started it?

unpa1dcar3r Fri 07-Oct-11 09:42:58

What the hell is he supposed to be doing to endanger staff FFS (Sorry to swear but this is ridiculous). He is a small child!

They are clearly not meeting his needs. Why is he behaving like this, I would say it's because they are not taking into account his educational needs- maybe he cannot learn in the environment they put him in, maybe he learns differently. maybe he's bright enough to be bored rigid by what they're teaching. All these will lead to bad behaviour but a danger????

I understand they have lots of children in the class to cater for. I also am of the opinion that in some ways I feel sorry for mainstream teachers who didn't sign up for special needs, and have them put in their class, but FFS, surely a little compassion and understanding needn't have to be taught at teacher training college!

Why can they not adapt their teaching methods to suit your child? Sounds like they don't have a bloody clue to me and its easier to pass the buck into your son; blame him rather than address their incompetence and lack of regard and professionalism.

jandymaccomesback Fri 07-Oct-11 10:19:56

unpa1dcar3r unfortunately small children can be very strong. I have had situations at school where children bit, kicked, and threw objects around the room and at staff. I am not saying that this is the case with this child, just that it happens and can be very frightening for all involved when a child goes into meltdown.
The staff at the school do need training in how to handle this child, and how to avoid the behaviour escalating, but this isn't always eay to arrange at short notice.
The school I worked at excluded a child with the aim of getting him admitted to a specialist behaviour unit, so although it seemed harsh at the time they were really trying to help the child. Again I am not saying that is the case here.
Definitely ring IPSEA as soon as possible.

Agnesdipesto Fri 07-Oct-11 11:46:15

There was a legal case last year where a teacher was injured (by much older child) who had ASD but never properly diagnosed and so teacher never had any training eg in restraint / behaviour methods. She sued the LA for negligence in leaving her in class with a child who was a known risk without adequate training and won (I think she sustained quite a serious injury).
But this is good evidence to say your child needs specialist help. Do you want to consider a specialist placement? If so I would be finding the most specialist expensive help available eg specialist unit, ABA in mainstream, private school and asking for this to be named on the statement asap.
Apart from anything else this will make the LA sit up and take notice.
I would also be asking for home tuition and a care package to be put in place so you can go back to work.
I would also write down what the nursery / school have said and send them a copy as well as sending this in support of your request for statement.
Put everything you can remember in writing as if the LA put pressure on a m/s school they may pretend none of this was ever said.

lisad123 Fri 07-Oct-11 12:04:10

You may well have some major difficulties as Im pretty sure LA dont have to provide education to children under 5 years old, so may be dragging their feet.
What is the behaviour they are saying is dnagerous?
They are right they have to consider ALL children but someone needs to help you find the right placement for him.

Agnesdipesto Fri 07-Oct-11 12:36:17

Except there is a DDA argument if every other child who was 4 by 31 Aug has a school place

lisad123 Fri 07-Oct-11 13:56:14

he would have to be 5 already to meet the new school guidelines for one yearly intake, so he is in nursery and NOT reception, so LA dont have to provide anything yet sad thats my understanding.

madwomanintheattic Fri 07-Oct-11 16:07:22

they should be providing 15 hours then? doesn't it go up for the pre-school year? <sorry, am a bit out of the loop wrt early years>

lisad123 Fri 07-Oct-11 16:21:23


States: Local education authorities must find a free school place for all children who are ‘of compulsory school age’ - see under heading Compulsory school age. It must also find a school or sixth form college place for young people aged 16 to 19 who want one. If a child of compulsory school age can't receive education at school, the local education authority has a duty to provide suitable education in some other way, for example, home tuition.

jandymaccomesback Fri 07-Oct-11 19:01:38

Statutory school age is the term after the term in which the child is five (except in NI).

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