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School asking what I think DS1 (5, ASD) needs, I don't know!

(18 Posts)
LeninGrad Wed 28-Sep-11 13:12:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bavo Wed 28-Sep-11 13:21:51

Hiya, just read your message and snap! Mine is 6 and he has ASD/ADHD and although year 1 not without some issues, year 2 is a nightmare. He has a statement but he"s not coping with the work at all. His behaviour since he went into year 2 (which is only a couple of weeks now) has been awful. I have an appointment of Friday with the SEn at his school, so will have to see how it goes. I really know how you feel, but you arn"t alone.
Hope all goes well for you

bochead Wed 28-Sep-11 13:55:55

They could start with sending you and a staff member on an nas earlybird plus couse so you can figure it out together ; )

LeninGrad Wed 28-Sep-11 14:18:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

glitch Wed 28-Sep-11 14:32:37

Do you think that he needs 1:1 support in order to help deal with his anxieties at scool and help him to focus? Does he need the TA's help most of the time whilst at school? That could be what they are getting at.

Does he need input from an OT or SALT or both? Weighted cushions? Ear defenders? Visual timetables, sand timers, gosh the list is endless.

If he is getting behind with work and needs to be with a TA most of the time, I would be asking for 1:1 support.

AttilaTheMeerkat Wed 28-Sep-11 14:37:35


To me it sounds like your son's needs on SA plus are no longer being fully met. This is not an uncommon scenario re behaviour at home. DS could well be bottling up all his frustrations of the school day only to take it out on your when he gets home (due to needs not being fully met by school).

IEP on here also means "individual empty promise".

I would apply personally for a Statement asap (do not let school do it) as this is a legally binding document unlike SA plus where the support can be very much limited. School could get the EP into see your son; I take it as read they have not done this already.

You need to think longer term as well; next year he will go up into Junior school and again the pressures to "conform" will increase there.

LeninGrad Wed 28-Sep-11 14:48:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Agnesdipesto Wed 28-Sep-11 18:19:41

I think doing an observation yourself in school is pretty crucial as you will almost certainly be able to spot the problems / triggers and that will give you a starting point.
You can consider:
Environmental changes - is he sitting near / facing something distracting? Is he sat near the teacher? Does he listen better facing the teacher or facing the wall
Behaviour - is he showing any behaviour issues - challenging or passive - both are barriers to learning. Is there a positive reward system in place to motivate him? Does he have any repetitive behaviours / stims? If so how often is he doing these? Are they being interrupted?
Language - Is he understanding correctly? Is he following instructions first time or does he need them broken down - more time to process? Can he follow individual / small group / large group instructions? Is he retaining information
Social - is he joining in? Is he making friends? Is he interacting appropriately?
Emotional - is he happy?
Triggers - any flashpoints eg assembly, lunchtime etc
Monitoring - what programmes are in place, how are they assessing progress, how are they deciding what to teach next, what info are they recording, are they evaluating the interventions they put in to see if they are effective? Do they have programmes for every area of deficit?

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 18:34:26

Lenin, all I can say really, is that with a school like that you are MILES ahead of so many of us.

Most of us have to go through the statementing process because the school fail to recognise that they don't have a clue and that parents might have some good ideas.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 18:39:43

What I would suggest, if they are up for it, is that you have very short-term targets of a fortnight or so, with things that are measurable. Then meet with the TA/class teacher to knock those off he has achieved and talk about any new challenges that have come up and add a target or two.

You could start with something like some of these:

1 to consistently sit on the carpet the right way round without being prompted
2 to keep his hands to himself for 3 consecutive whole carpet sessions
3 to say ‘Hello X’ 5 times a session, initiating and using their name.
4 To recount two activities he did at tome for news time (weekly).
5 To successfully wait 3 minutes for his preferred bike, each session that the bikes are available.
6 To use words, unprompted, to ask peers to move out of his way 3 times each session.
7 To participate in simple role play with partial prompting 2 times per session.
8 To sustain play/interaction with a peer for 3mins with minimum adult intervention, 4 times a week.
9 To answer ‘How do you feel?’ for both positive and negative emotions 3 out of 5 opportunities per day.
10 To ask a peer to play a familiar game twice per session 3 times a week.

For each of these there can be a daily tick list which shows that a)he has done the task, and b)whether it was FP (fully prompted) PP (Partially Prompted) or I (Independently).

To refrain from frightening the TA or Class teacher, whilst you are getting a system like this in place you might want to start with just 2 or 3 targets.

Hopefully, your TA will take delight at watching her FPs turn into Is.

steelev48 Wed 28-Sep-11 20:13:42

I would ask for an OT assessment for advice re. the sensory issues. They can also go into school and advise them about things to change in the physical environment. Then you can ask for help implementing their recommendations, e.g. sensory diet, exercises, special equipment.

LeninGrad Wed 28-Sep-11 21:18:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 21:27:08

The targets might be there, but it is the HOW that you need to discuss really.

How are you going to make sure that he keeps his hands to himself during 3 consecutive carpet sessions?

Well for 1, you could start with a TA sitting right next to him each carpet session, reminding him every time his hands stray, recording the number of times she has to remind him, and when it gets to a lower number, moving further and further away, i.e giving less support.

For the emotions target you'll need the TA to spot his different emotions and ask 'how are you feeling?' and then model 'I'm feeling happy/bored/cross!' probably 5 times a day until he can do it 5 times a day without the modelling.

It's always the HOW that is the tricky part really, and that is why you might need to just have 2-3 targets to begin with whils the school and TA get used to it and figure how to incorporate into their routine.

Agnesdipesto Wed 28-Sep-11 23:11:27

He shouldn't be separated from class for the social interaction part! Thats why he needs 1:1 for that - so they are alongside him prompting him or setting up structured scenarios. eg a play with a structured activity with one peer - then expand to a small group etc. Can also pair things he really likes to play with with other children so he only gets to access them with peers which sort of builds a positive association between the two.

At that age its quite easy to grab a small group or spare child and do something very structured eg with DS - severe ASD but normal IQ, age 4 he would share eg the train track / lego with another child and have to ask or pass an item to the other child and he would be rewarded (with tokens) for just playing alongside and making simple requests. Or they would sing a song and do the actions together in a small group and each child would choose a song and DS has to tolerate other choices than his. So its very adult directed and totally for DS benefit. I always think that the other kids would mind eg having to pass jigsaw pieces to DS one by one but they usually queue up to 'work' with him just to get the adult attention i think. And its only 5 minutes here and there of social interaction through the day - This is better than doing a 20 min stint once a week away from the class - children aren't necessarily going to generalise that to the classroom. It needs to be embedded in the classroom.

Are they still doing alot of play in Yr 1? If not you might have to think about how to ensure that stays as a focus eg even ask to spend some time in reception just playing or support at breaks

You could also try and give him breaks out of class if its sensory overload but try and time them before any unwanted behaviours arise as you don't want to be rewarding him for kicking off, but instead for being good. So they could say you've doing x really well and then let him eg go to a quiet space or do a lap of the playground or whatever he needs to de-stress then bring him back and carry on work

But as you can see this sort of approach does require 1:1

Ask the school straight out what the LA expects the school to put in by way of 1:1 from its own delegated resources. Our schools are given a pot of money by the LA and are supposed to put in the first 20 hours of 1:1 from that and only children who need over 20 hours get a statement. So it may be the school has the money for 1:1 but is choosing not to spend it on your DS and if you apply for a statement the LA is likely to tell them to put the 1:1 in first to prove 20 (or whatever) hours is not enough. I can't see you getting a statement if you currently have zero hours 1:1 unless your LA has a very different funding structure.

LeninGrad Thu 29-Sep-11 09:33:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeninGrad Wed 19-Oct-11 22:10:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dazeykat Wed 19-Oct-11 22:26:50

You can seek advice from the NAS re statementing - they have an education advice service. Their advice to me was really useful. See NAS website. Also your LA should have a Parent Partnership who can advise. The school should also be able to access the LA's autism support service, who can advise them on strategies. The advice to get things in place asap is good, as goodwill alone may not always be sufficient to ensure the best for your ds. Good luck & hope your son's school experience improves smile

blueShark Thu 20-Oct-11 11:16:31

I just wanted to say this thread has been excellent!!!

Copied and pasted lots for my meeting with teacher later on, thanks guys, as usual you are the best grin

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