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Anyone REALLY knoweldgable about feminism that cares to discuss it's role wrt ASD?

(188 Posts)
StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 11:42:05

Okay. I'm not intending to upset anyone, and yes, I'm probably quite insane wrt this but I wanted some views on this theory.

Some of you know that I believe that stressed-out mothers, and inhumane labours 'triggers' autism in babies with a genetic predisposition. This is because of the hormone Oxytocin that is essential for bonding, love, social interaction etc. is lower in stressed mothers, and supressed by adrenaline during pregnancy and childbirth.

This has not been researched. It probably won't be. Who would fund it?

Okay, with me so far?

Now, I have read some alluded to statistics (not found the source yet) that suggests in Afro-American families there is a prevelance of just a sixth of the number of caucasions diagnosed with autism. In American Indians, it is half. These two societies are matriarchal.

I'll carry on only if I get a few bites............or anyone's interest!

squidworth Wed 28-Sep-11 11:53:34

The problem with these types of statistics is that it also depends on how cultures/countries diagnose. I honestly believe 20 years ago neither of my boys would of been dx ASD, my eldest would be classed as a strange geek and my youngest would of been diagnosed as being brain damaged. Both of my boys regressed.

cwtch4967 Wed 28-Sep-11 11:57:51

I'd like to hear where you are going with this..............

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 12:00:38

Oh absolutely squid. I'm just discussing a theory for the moment, but thanks for responding to the post. Although the Afro-Americans are in American, but possibly as a whole have less access to diagnosis, and 'might' be more likely to be given labels of bad behaviour of course.

But my theory isn't really underpinned by these stats, at least they alone could not prove anything. If it was that easy it would have been done.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 12:01:45

Thank you cwtwch.

I'm just exploring it for the moment but would love to have a discussion, so I'll post again shortly.

SweetGrapes Wed 28-Sep-11 12:04:31

Afro-american and American Indian are matriarchal? Really?
In dd's class there are always more boys than girls and more black boys than anyone else. (She is usually the only girl in her class.)

Does this mean anything? I have no idea...

Feel a bit sad that there aren't any more girls though. And makes me wonder how it'll be for her once they are all in secondary school.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 12:05:41

Now, it would seem that feminism is a bit mixed up at the moment.

Historically, in almost every culture, women have been the childcarers, and nurturers. They have also been quite powerful in the role of provider, with their children tagging alongside them until industrialisation took hold and massproducing.

lisad123 Wed 28-Sep-11 12:06:03

I think you would struggle to find the right numbers especially from some certain backgrounds.
Some cultures would leave their child somewhere if they were found to have a disability, some blame the mum so its never recorded and some refuse to believe in disabilities at all sad > just look at the family in china thread!

I certainly would be intrested in stess mother = asd. Both my preganncys were horrible and the births even worse sad

willowthecat Wed 28-Sep-11 12:07:18

I think the problem with looking at autism dx rates in Africa is that it's unlikely their societies are diagnosing autism in the way done in North America and Europe and also is difficult in itself due to autism not being a true diagnosis ( something you see at the end of a microscope) but a subjective assessment of a set of behaviours. I saw an interesting article on bbc web site last week about a boy in Ethiopia with 'autism' and it was generally thought of as a form of possession by demons - and when you look at some of the crazy ideas Europe/USA has come up with about 'autism', who are we to judge ?

lacornsillk Wed 28-Sep-11 12:08:02

Interesting idea...anyone know what are the statistics for different ethnic groups within this country?

lacornsillk Wed 28-Sep-11 12:09:55

...also there is a poster on here <can't remember her name blush> who posted about doctors who qualified in different countries and who were now working within the Uk having different approaches to a dx of ASD.

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 28-Sep-11 12:24:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SweetGrapes Wed 28-Sep-11 12:39:06

In India the doctors admit to not diagnosing autism in the past because there was nothing the parents can do about it. So, even if they suspect it, they don't really say anything. (More in smaller towns where there really are no facilities for things like this and maybe parents are not educated/internet savvy so not really able to research things for themselves.)
The same thing may be going on elsewhere also.
(Must say though, each time I go back I find awareness has jumped up loads.)

SweetGrapes Wed 28-Sep-11 12:46:04

"Now, it would seem that feminism is a bit mixed up at the moment.

Historically, in almost every culture, women have been the childcarers, and nurturers. They have also been quite powerful in the role of provider, with their children tagging alongside them until industrialisation took hold and massproducing."

Do you mean that when mums are the primary caregivers, it's a matriachal society? Where I come from, it's very traditional, my mother-in-law lives like people have lived for centuries - definetely the care giver and nurturer in the family, men are not involved in childbirth (my bil was not allowed to visit his wife and daughter for 2 months after the birth) - and I have not seen a more staunch defender/supported/implementer of the patriachy.
Woe-betide me if I step out of line...

(So, I escape to the UK with dh and dc's and go 'nar nar' at her from a few 1000 miles away... grin)

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 12:46:57

Okay, leave the cultures aside for a bit. That's not especially where I was going.

Since women and the nuturing/childcare role has been seperated from production, women's roles in society became devalued, and subsequently the role of childcarer and nuturer became devalued.

As women became less valued, they became walking wombs, cooks and caretakers of men and their men's ability to produce and earn money.

Women did eventually fight back but mostly to compete with men in a men's world, as men, NOT to win the right to be valued as carers, childrearers and nurtures, and certainly NOT to create a society where children were a proper part of it, including production.

SweetGrapes Wed 28-Sep-11 12:48:21

However, stressed mum == asd kid could still be possible.
Just not sure of the feminism/afro-american/native american angle.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 12:48:38

sorry sweetgrapes x post. No, not especially.

SweetGrapes Wed 28-Sep-11 12:49:04

Sorry, X post

SweetGrapes Wed 28-Sep-11 12:49:34

I better shut up now grin

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 12:50:37

Oh what? No, please don't shut up Sweetgrapes.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 12:56:33

Anyway, women won the right to do anything (okay, we're still fighting that one but largely things have improved), but in doing so we have created a world economy where households are based on two incomes, largely.

What we have won essentially, for most of us, is the need to do EVERYTHING, whilst still being subjected to large inequalities in policy, finance and demands on our time.

We also now live in an extremely competitive world, where (particularly in this country) personal achievement and wealth is considered more important than socieity's and that society is the culmination of competivite, achieving individuals.

okay - so it got a bit political too grin

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 12:58:41

Competition and the stress of it produces adrenaline and impedes Oxytocin, which isn't needed anyway much because sucess is based on drive, not so much empathy.

To pile on even more stress, services for women during pregnancy and childbirth are shite, because they are for women, but more importantly for the aspect of women that is not valued.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 13:02:14

Now humans develop organically, and there is quite a lot of research that shows that babies develop in the womb in a way that would give them the best chance of surviving the environment that they will be born into, and continue to do so in their early years.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 28-Sep-11 13:04:14

Have I lost everyone......?

SweetGrapes Wed 28-Sep-11 13:09:43

Still here... Just trying to do everything at once.

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