Advanced search

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on SN.

Could i please have your comments on this?

(37 Posts)
Claw3 Tue 13-Sep-11 09:28:08

Below are observations in brief over a two year period of ds in school. School are saying ds "only has these difficulties on paper" and they consider these observations as a "snap shot" of ds. Apparently he doesnt have any of these difficulties on a day to day basis and his teachers have no concerns and are therefore not following any of the recommendations made by the experts below. What can i do if school are saying these problems do not exist? (sorry its long!)

Specialist SALT Sept 09

Ds seemed quite agitated and anxious and moved around a lot on his chair. On many occasions during the assessment he seemed quite confused. Ds is engaging in some repetitive behaviours ie rubbing his mouth with his jumper. There was also some eye twitching observed, rocking and repetitive hand movements within the assessment session. At times our informal conversation did not make sense to me.

Bibic Dec 09

Ds was observed to frequently pick at his face and lips as he worked, he also swung his feet back and forth. He needed extensive direction to begin tasks.

Specialist SALT June 10

Ds permitted his mum to leave him in the room with me. However he showed raised levels of anxiety and rubbed his skin constantly. I attempted to engage ds in conversation, his eye contact became reduced and became self absorbed in what he was doing. He made no attempt to interact with me.

EP September 10

It has been observed that ds is very anxious to get things right and has a tendency to say “no I didn’t do it”. Ds was observed in the playground, which was a large, generally open area. Ds tended to walk along one edge of the grass. He appeared content to walk backwards and forwards on his own. He did not seek to engage in play with any other pupil. I asked him to tell me about the playground. Ds pointed outside of the school and said that his house was over there. We walked for a little and when we talked ds tended to come back to the subject of his house. When asked about worries he said he worried in school when places “looked dark and scary”.

ASD Advisory teacher visit September 2010

She observed ds was unable to change his library book without adult assistance. ds became anxious and close to tears at fruit time and needed her to prompt him to tell the teacher that he did not want fruit. During a small group assessment ds struggled with language, communication, rigid thinking and separating fantasy from reality. She observed his avoidance technique of having his PE kit, but saying he had left it at home. Class teacher reported that ds was not able to read from the interactive white board.

SALT October 10

Ds's class teacher reported that he does not show social isolation, but has not got particular friendships within the class. At times, ds can get very anxious, particularly when speaking in front of the class. He will cough or clear his throat a lot when nervous. During the observation, some anxious behaviours were noted, for example the continuous movement of his hands and clearing of his throat.

Ind SALT March 11

I observed ds in the classroom during a literacy lesson. ds sat passively throughout the discussion. ds did not engage in the task until the TA came to his table and asked him directly, after a great deal of prompting ds engaged by copying the ideas of the girl next to him. ds appeared confused by the task and needed further individual prompting. My impression was that ds did not understand what his teacher was implying. TA had to stay with ds to talk through what to do next and what to write. At the end of the lesson the TA shook a tambourine to signal that the children should stop and put their hands on their heads to show they were listening. ds did not attend. At the end of the lesson, the children had worked independently and completed far more work than ds. ds called out to his teacher that he had only done two lines.

ind OT Feb 11

Ds was fidgeting with his hands and shoes. Ds seemed to get distracted at the table. ds had to be reminded to collect his items and sit back down. ds looked down and fiddled with his pen during the discussion. When asked to collect the milk from the office, ds struggled and was confused. During the break period it was raining and we had to remain indoors. The class were told to go to their tables and choose some pictures to colour in. ds was the last child to take a seat. He was fiddling with pencils, when reminded to sit down, he did. He playfully showed a picture to a girl sat next to him, she however was busy with her drawing and did not notice ds. As ds walked around the class room he talked to himself, he then pretended to swish a sword in the air by himself. When ds was seated he coloured in by himself, other children sat at the table were talking while drawing. ds tidied up slowly and again was the last to seated on the carpet.

lisad123 Tue 13-Sep-11 10:04:37

i would be tempted to consider a new school. If they arent going to see his difficulties with all these report, what would it seriously take for them?

gemcorey Tue 13-Sep-11 10:11:51

i would have thought that beins salt are seeijng and asd team that school cant ignore the problems. they sound like they occur on day to day bsis. does he hv a statement or diagnosis?maybe try speakn to area senco if school senco not listening. otherwise i think i agree i'd change school. very sorry to hear how they bein. mine has just started n his statement is in process yet school is not supportn him atm like they meant to b. schools seem to like to think they know everythin wen they dont.

Becaroooo Tue 13-Sep-11 10:18:40

Agree with lisad123

utah Tue 13-Sep-11 10:21:17

Do you have this on paper form as this would be my first action with cc to everyone on the list. A letter to chair of gov asking why the school have this attitude.

Claw3 Tue 13-Sep-11 10:28:50

This is ds's 'new' school, we changed a year ago after having exactly the same problem at his old school. Old school just refused to accept point blank that he even had autism. Apparently i was the cause of the difficulties, hmm what difficulties, the difficulties he doesnt have!

This school are saying yes he has the difficulties that have been assessed by various experts, but basically they have no impact on him and do not interfere with his learning etc.

He doesnt have a statement, he has a NIL. Dx of autism, SPD, hypermobility, ocomotor defiencies type 2. I lost at Tribunal as tribunal believed school and agreed it was just a 'snap shot'.

I dont know what to do to convince everyone its not just a 'snap shot', perhaps i should get an ind expert to observe ds in school, everyday for a week?

Becaroooo Tue 13-Sep-11 10:48:32

Oh dear sad You must be at your wits end sad

I am sure someone more experienced will be along in a minute but I wonder whether if were an option you could do as you suggest? Would the school allow it??

Are there any other schools he could go to in your area?

ArthurPewty Tue 13-Sep-11 10:51:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Claw3 Tue 13-Sep-11 10:56:35

Becaroo, ive been through 2 schools so far, im starting to think that maybe it isnt the school as such, its ds and lack of training in SN's for teachers. I dont think they are deliberately not noticing, just not noticing. Ds is extremely passive, quiet and has a strong desire to conform and fit in, he hides his difficulties well, he is easily overlooked. So im thinking i am going to have the same problem wherever i put ds.

Im not sure if school would allow it, but they would look pretty unreasonable, if they didnt?

(have to pop out, back soon)

Claw3 Tue 13-Sep-11 10:58:37

Thanks Leonie, i feel pretty miserable reading those observations, but school keep telling me, its not like that every day for ds. Im struggling to believe them!

WilsonFrickett Tue 13-Sep-11 11:04:39

Oh Claw. I don't know what to say except hugs sad. Hopefully someone can give you some more constructive advice. Does the EP work within the school? Could they do more regular visits / obs?

zzzzz Tue 13-Sep-11 11:16:25

Have read all the above. Oh Claw3, they must be barking if they think that ALL these individual reports are fluke snapshots!!! I'm so sorry this is what school is like for him.

He sounds totally invested/involved/noticed/challenged.....sad

He sounds to me like he needs a lot more attention at school than he is getting.

So do you move him again? Do you home school either part or full time? Do you fight for more support? Is it better for him to have a rubbish experience of school than no experience or changing school all the time? Can you somehow teach them how to get him to do some of this stuff?

I don't know the answer to all these questions. What I do know is how totally awful life is when school is going badly....and how totally different it is when it works.

How does HE feel he does at school?

StarlightMcKenzie Tue 13-Sep-11 12:30:04

'School are saying ds "only has these difficulties on paper" and they consider these observations as a "snap shot" of ds. Apparently he doesnt have any of these difficulties on a day to day basis and his teachers have no concerns and are therefore not following any of the recommendations made by the experts below'

Claw, the first thing you do is get this down in writing in a letter to the school to clarify your understanding of their actions and rational.

You beaver away collecting evidence. Notes to the teacher of his anxieties at home (copied and filed), things he says about school, injuries, things other parents tell you, anything the class teacher says etc etc.

A NIL isn't for life. I know you have been let down but this system is the only one we have and you need to get good at it. Speak to one of the charities too. Maybe phone a solicitor and access their free 15 mins etc.

At 16 with all this evidence you may have a claim for neglect. Of course you don't want to get to 16 with it never being sorted but you know how time drags and if it looks like you are collecting evidence now for then, they'll be a bit more careful.

I was in a situation too, where a tribunal ruled against what we wanted and the school took it to mean that what we were doing was bad for ds (the tribunal simply said it was good but not good enough to justify the cost) and therefore refused to implement any of my suggestions.

When is the NIL up for review/do you have an opportunity to go for a statement again?

Your evidence will have to have additional things in it, so you need to plan and collect, and even contrive at times.

zzzzz Tue 13-Sep-11 12:37:14

Sorry blasted thing has removed all the uns, I meant of course

He sounds totally un-invested/involved/noticed/challenged.....

Claw3 Tue 13-Sep-11 12:48:11

wilson LA EP has assessed ds in school it was her observation of him in the playground above, she was also part of the ASD team who gave ds his dx ie she was invited along with the SENCO to observe an hour session with specialist SALT and part of the team that made some of the recommendations of 'a level of one to one' in the classroom, amoug others. She appeared at Tribunal as a witness for the LA, along with SENCO of the school to say "on paper he has lots of difficulties" but doesnt need the recommendations, some of which she herself made ffs!!

Claw3 Tue 13-Sep-11 12:51:02

zzzzz all the observations of the difficulties he has, are totally in line with and what you would expect from the difficulties they have identified during assessments, the percentiles, the communication difficulties etc, etc.

I dont want to move him, well not just anyhow, i moved him during the SA process last time and there was certainly an air of "lets what and see how he gets on at his new school" at tribunal. I am already regarded as an over anxious parent and have seen the notes that have been written about me, although i shouldnt have to defend this, unfortunately for anyone to take you seriously, you have to.

I plan on fighting for more support. But im guessing i will need to convince everyone, including future tribunals that its not a 'snap shot' which is what they choose to believe last time.

Ds feels he cannot do a thing right, he has very low self esteem, feels he is a 'loser'. He is much happier at this school, than he was his last school, simply because he was bullied something terrible at his last school and he is not bullied at this school. He is getting some help at this school too, just not what the experts recommend. Its half hearted support.

SENCO lied at Tribunal by saying that he has reached all his targets, but didnt provide any evidence of this. I asked for copies of all programmes in July, im still waiting. Ds hasnt even had an IEP since February, so targets dont exist (his teacher told me during parents evening 'that she hadnt had the time to write it'. Previous IEP's since starting school 3 years ago, ds has failed to met a single target. But during Tribunal SENCO sat there saying he had, even though i had provided copies of IEPS with exactly the same targets.

Apparently ds has also met his SALT targets, she did not provide a copy of this either and i have asked for a copy. Her response "i thought you got a copy at Tribunal" and im still waiting for a copy. He hasnt managed to met a SALT target since he was 2 years old, he is now 7.

I intend to apply for SA again, but its the just having to wait that is so frustrating. When i receive copies i plan to kick some serious arse, its just the waiting for everything.

PipinJo Tue 13-Sep-11 12:58:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Claw3 Tue 13-Sep-11 13:13:58

Hi Pipinjo smile His old school was a tiny school, one form per year, very few sn kids there, no sn training for teachers. They didnt even have a social skills group there. Ds received no help whatsoever. Still this was pre dx.

The school he is at now, has two forms per year, so bigger. This school came recommended to me because of their ASD knowledge, all staff have training of ASD (although this probably amounts to one day training) they are having an ASD unit built there, all of the above reports speak very highly of the SENCO and her training and knowledge. Which makes me look even over anxious and as if im making the whole thing up!

They intially gave ds 20 hours of one to one, when he started, i thought my prayers had been answered. This was removed before tribunal as 'it wasnt needed' according to SENCO. Since Tribunal ds hasnt even had an IEP.

StarlightMcKenzie Tue 13-Sep-11 13:21:59

'so targets dont exist (his teacher told me during parents evening 'that she hadnt had the time to write it''

This also should have been followed up in writing. Dear teacher, I have never seen any targets. When I asked you at parents evening on x date/time, you said you hadn't had time to write it. Can I just clarify that I heard correctly?

This is important because it will tell future tribunals that the school doesn't have the resources themselves to meet your child's needs, which is the main requirement of a statement.

StarlightMcKenzie Tue 13-Sep-11 13:24:18

No. You are not WAITING for tribunal. You are WORKING towards tribunal.

Get active. Write to the SALT clarifying your request for the targets and her response that you must have got it at tribunal.

Be polite. Don't get angry or harass. Just simple, clarifying letters that look to a tribunal that they would only take a one line reply.

ie. oh sorry for the misunderstanding, here are the targets, feel free to call and discuss etc.

Claw3 Tue 13-Sep-11 13:45:13

Thanks Star, i put my request in writing, bullet pointing exactly what i wanted copies of. Request wasnt to SALT, it was to SENCO, she claimed at Tribunal that she had the SALT programme and that ds was meeting targets.

I wrote on the 11th July requesting

• Exactly what help ds currently receives.

• A copy of ds’s SALT programme, targets, outcomes and progress etc. (i have never seen a copy and she didnt produce a copy at Tribunal)

• A copy of ds’s ‘Jump ahead’ programme, targets, outcomes and progress etc. (same as above)

• A copy of ds’s social skills programme, targets, outcomes and progress etc. (same as above)

• A copy of the recommendations made by ASD Advisory teacher in September 2010, the targets, outcome, progress etc. (ASD advisory teacher didnt make any, as she was told by school they were dealing with it)

• A copy of the recommendations made by SALSA team and the Occupational Therapist. (school told tribunal, they would be doing this)

• A copy of February 2011 IEP and ds’s current IEP. (i have never seen a copy and she didnt produce copies at Tribunal)

Apparently SENCO was off sick and no one else could possible take photocopies and the member of staff told me Mrs X says you should have already had copies at Tribunal. I told her no i dont. This is the second week back to school and SENCO isnt sick, still no sign of the copies. Should i write requesting again or a phone call?

StarlightMcKenzie Tue 13-Sep-11 13:53:15

Claw, - it will cost you £50 but if you request his school file, and include amongst it a subject access request which will include anything they hold on you or your ds that is NOT in his school file.

They have 20 days to photocopy everything and send it to you.

If his targets are NOT with it, then they either do not exist, or they are breaking the law by not providing you with them.

(you can avoid the £50 by agreeing to an appointment to view the files, - but it is probably worth the money so that there is no dispute about what they have or not. i.e. if you don't physically have what they say they have, then they can pretend that you 'saw' them when you had your appointment.)

StarlightMcKenzie Tue 13-Sep-11 13:54:02

God, I know how draining all this is. I have to do the same in the next few days.

Claw3 Tue 13-Sep-11 14:10:26

Right, i requested his school file at previous school, just copied the example on IPSEA website i think, so know how to do that, is there an example letter for subject access request, how is it worded?

I cant reapply for SA until 31st Oct, but i want to have it all ready and waiting and hand deliver it on the 31st, 9am.

Claw3 Tue 13-Sep-11 14:12:49

Star it is draining isnt it, but strangely i feel like i have limitless energy despite being ill and im invincible this time round, still give it a couple of months grin

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now