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Tribunal ruling

(19 Posts)
appropriatelytrained Fri 22-Jul-11 19:25:29

We didn't end up going to our Tribunal - school and S&LT and LA had stitched up the whole thing - lied about provision, programme, progress etc and it was not worth throwing money at this to try and prove otherwise as the issue was fairly minimal.

Of course the resulting statement is better than DS's statement in January but we have been slated (of course we weren't there) for removing DS and for somehow preventing provision being put in place - god knows what has been said.

I really wish I had conceded and not allowed them to get a ruling as not only has everyone lied but they have got a ruling supporting them and their lies.

I am so so angry at myself for this. I was never going to win against the lies and after deciding not to go, I should have written and conceded rather than asking them to hear the case.

I am also annoyed as this suggestion came from my lawyer. I feel we've really played into their hands

appropriatelytrained Fri 22-Jul-11 19:26:55

Tribunal judge was TA - anyone know him?

WetAugust Fri 22-Jul-11 20:09:45

If you have evidence that they lied you should make a formal complaint to the Local Authority as they employ these liars and also to the Local Government Ombudsman for maladministration.

You shouldn't let this go unchallenged.

Revenege is sweet.

Best wishes

appropriatelytrained Fri 22-Jul-11 20:29:47

Oh Wet, I wish that were true. I have been to the LGO once and they lied to the LGO who just went away and said that even though no provision was in place, the LA was 'not at fault' as there had been no 'unnecessary delay'

If they all lie - how can you prove it? Unless one person at school is prepared to say there was no S&LT provision for this child when they said there was, there is nothing you can do.

I wanted to walk away from it but I should have just done so by withdrawing my appeal

coff33pot Fri 22-Jul-11 20:39:12

I have never experienced going to a tribunal so I cant help but I am sorry you had such a horrible time of it and send you a hug x

appropriatelytrained Fri 22-Jul-11 21:27:10

Thanks. I am so upset this evening as I have given them the opportunity to get this ruling against me and I never should have.

It doesn't even look like they have read the S&LT report. But then I wasn't there, so I can't complain. I should have withdrawn rather than make them do it in my absence. I feel I've been badly advised.

Presumably you can withdraw at any stage - even the day before?

appropriatelytrained Fri 22-Jul-11 23:16:03

Feeling a bit more hopeful. Looking at the ruling - the tribunal has set out all the issues but has:

1. Not ruled on the issue of whether DS needs an HLTA

2. Said in its ruling that our EP agrees with LAs EP in terms of need and provision. This is completely wrong. Our EP says full-time specialist TA support. LA says unspecified 20 hours

3. Confirmed that the only issue between the S&LTs is the issue of 1:1 direct therapy and the NHS S&LT says there is no clinical need for this. However, our S&LT said that a S&LT needed to attend weekly because of lack of ASD training, need to support TA and ensure inclusion in school activities and not just because of 1:1 therapy. This dispute is not even recorded in the evidence summary or ruling

4. Removed our proposed addition that parents should be part of the thrice yearly multi-disciplinary meetings between specialists that the LA agreed to included in the statement without explanation. They have also removed school from these meetings!

Interestingly, the ruling does not even describe DS's needs, his progress in any area or his wishes

wasuup3000 Fri 22-Jul-11 23:34:23

You have to withdraw 10 days before. I wrote 10 days before and asked for more time as my daughter had more professional appointments which may have meant another diagnosis.

We got more time and an additional diagnosis. Not sure what the LEA's next move will be as would they have to reassess her needs and placement suitability or whether to carry on with the Tribunal?

It does sound as though you have been badly advised. I hope someone can advise on the next move for you.

appropriatelytrained Sat 23-Jul-11 00:44:20

I thought cases often compromised near the date of Tribunal so what happens then?

justaboutWILLfinishherthesis Sat 23-Jul-11 06:47:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

appropriatelytrained Sat 23-Jul-11 09:25:45

Thanks. It is very frustrating, as not being there, I expected a ruling against us, but, I did anticipate they would have looked at the evidence in making their judgment even if they rejected it.

tryingtokeepintune Sat 23-Jul-11 10:13:33

AT - I am so sorry to hear what has happened - after all you have been through. Do you know what you are going to do now?

I withdrew my appeal 5 days before hearing because I got almost everything I wanted - the Working Document then became the agreed Statement.

There is a possibility of appeal to the Upper Tribunal but it is a risky strategy as leave to appeal is not always granted.

appropriatelytrained Sat 23-Jul-11 15:34:18

Thanks. It just feels that you never get a fair crack of the whip no matter what you do. They all lie and yet I am made to look like a loon for taking him out of such a lovely school with such a reasonable head.

Why comment on it at all? There was clearly a dispute on the written evidence in relation to the support DS was getting.

Do these people really think I'd be battling away for the good of my health? Just because I want to make people's life difficult

I think what angers me most is the implication that somehow, everyone in this system - S&LT, head, EP, Tribunal - have all had DS's best interests at heart and I've not. It's not as explicit as that but why write things in those terms?

It's also amazing that a busy YTribunal who can't even organsie things properly can manage to get a decision out in a day!

I feel like I've been at the Archer trial with the jduge commenting on Archer's 'fragrant wife'!

Agnesdipesto Sat 23-Jul-11 21:11:41

Sorry AT
To be fair turning up and having to listen to the lies and then read them in the 'ruling' is also crap. Even though we won we got no recognition of being right from the LA or SALT - instead we are treated as somehow amoral to have won good provision at the expense as they see it of other children and to have been dishonest as if its only possible for us to have won if we lied, not because their provision was genuinely awful.
So even when you win at Tribunal - you still don't win the argument in the LA's eyes
At least this way if it is ever brought up you can say only one side of the evidence was heard.
I suspect they got it out in a day as they did not sit for the full time - it might have been over in an hour and then they wrote it up in the afternoon.
Perhaps you can be the first volunteer for one of Cameron's personal budgets?
2014 is not that far away
Then you can choose your provider wink

appropriatelytrained Sat 23-Jul-11 22:20:49

That's a very interesting perspective Agnes. I am glad I didn't participate in the charade as I don't think it would have made a difference - and as you say at least I can say we didn't turn up, so of course you won!

I can see how incredibly frustrating and hurtful it must be for you too - there is no vindication in this system. I think as lawyers, perhaps, we thought there would be and that legal proceedings would make people do their job properly or listen. The fact that LA officers rather than lawyers present these cases gives them carte blanche to deceive as they have only their moral code of honour rather than professional legal ethics to guide them.

I think at least it made me realise how bad they all really were so that we know we have to flee. Otherwise, the offer of a few more S&LT visits and a negotiated settlement might have had us hanging round for even longer as we tried desperately to get everything in place.

Hope all is going ok with you. You must be getting really nervous about the start of school? Did you catch up with the SENCO for a chat?

Agnesdipesto Sun 24-Jul-11 19:06:29

The new SENCO doesn't start until Sept.
The visit went ok despite the school being very disorganised
DS new teacher has actually come across children with autism before so was fairly relaxed about the prospect
We were supposed to have lots sorted out for Sept, but no-one seemed very bothered so we have decided to keep with him going three afternoons which means DS won't actually be in school the first 2 weeks as its mornings only
Apart from a gap in his social skills programme for 8 weeks that actually suits us as his annual review is Oct so in some ways the less school can say on the subject the better and the more likely any change to his statement is kicked into the long grass for now
I was running round trying to fix meetings and training for Sept and getting nowhere, so I just decided to leave it - no doubt they will all wait until late Sept and then be like headless chickens trying to fit in seeing DS before AR, but they will just have to fit in round us.
As he will be going occasionally and with his ABA shadow I feel ok about school.
Obviously the LA will be desperate to reduce / remove provision and am sure will be battles ahead, but just decided to take the summer off from it and recharge the batteries

want2sleep Sun 24-Jul-11 19:28:54

You could try and appeal against this ruling...tell me an LEA that does not lie! I have had 2 and they have been awful...maybe you should give them some of their own medicine!

appropriatelytrained Sun 24-Jul-11 19:41:26

That sounds like a very good idea!

appropriatelytrained Sun 24-Jul-11 19:46:14

to take the summer off I meant but then I saw your post want2sleep and giving them a taste of their own medicine is my revenge fantasy!

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