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Tribunal - NO statement

(51 Posts)
Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 08:23:25

Morning everyone, just an update for those who have helped and supported me along the way.

After Tribunal ds did not get a Statement. Seems the recommendations of experts were overruled and the Tribunal took more notice of 'school say he doesnt need this help'

But on the plus side, since changing schools ds is 100% happier and is receiving much more help than he did previously at his old school.

Thanks to everyone who has helped and supported me and listened to my moaning!

justaboutWILLfinishherthesis Mon 04-Jul-11 08:27:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

devientenigma Mon 04-Jul-11 08:29:10

So glad you found a happier helpful school. Now can the extra help he's getting not start the ball rolling with the new school and to wether they feel he needs a statement. Although you possibly don't feel up to it at the mo.

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 08:34:01

Thanks Justabout, it hasnt been a very positive experience, but not a total waste, i am now much wisier than i was before and the independent reports which i paid a fortune for are more detailed and have highlighted difficulties which even i hadnt noticed. Something the NHS experts would never have provided.

At least i am prepared for next time!!

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 08:35:15

Must do school run, back in a bit

Starchart Mon 04-Jul-11 08:49:20

Claw, as you know I went to tribunal and lost. It's pretty hard because you can't whinge about justice not being done because no-one will believe you and you'll look deluded. That doesn't mean you are deluded however.

An impressive EP one told me to keep my dignity, take part in life As much as possible but continue to keep and create systematically, evidence. You may need to go to tribunal again, but the fact that you did already means they know what you are capable of. You 'should' get better quality provision than if hadn't had done what you have.

If not you'll have the evidence you need to get it.

Starchart Mon 04-Jul-11 08:51:55

Btw, if you had either JB or AC as your judge or AC (a different one) on you panel you can have all the evidence in the world and you won't win.

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 09:15:46

Hi Star, i got nothing more than ds is already getting from going to Tribunal.

Its so frustrating, that school are believed over myself and experts. The school are not doing it on purpose, but they simply are unable to recognise ds's difficulties, i want to scream at them!!

PE for example OT report highlighted the difficulties he has with movement etc, ds hides his PE kit, doesnt want to go to school, fakes illness, scratches himself etc , etc. But school say he enjoys it. Not demonstrating, not making a fuss = he enjoys it.

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 09:18:31

Sorry forgot to ask, pardon my ignorance what is JB or AC?

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 09:23:36

Hi Devient, new school are saying they can provide help without a statement and ds is getting much more help than he did at previous school.

Statement wise ds would have been better off at his old school as they were saying they couldnt provide the help without a statement!! But he was getting no help whatsoever and i couldnt leave him there for a minute longer.

Agnesdipesto Mon 04-Jul-11 10:10:08

Claw I am so sorry.
Even though we won I know much weight (far too much) was put on the view of his nursery, who were the least knowledgeable people in the room.
So you need to take some time to rant, regroup and start again.
Hopefully you have a statement where its clear what is going to be delivered and can start to hold them to account to provide it, and as star says collect the evidence again if it doesn't.

You can use all that evidence to demand much better focussed IEPs and programmes etc. You are a massively better informed parent.

But I know you must be gutted.

Becaroooo Mon 04-Jul-11 11:11:41

claw Really sorry re: tribunal but great that your ds is so much happier in his new school.

Can I ask a question (off topic, sorry)?

Those of you who have had EPs assess your dc and be involved in the process, how did you find it?

Ds1's Paed is now backtracking (after requesting an EP assessment) after school telling him ds1's issues arent severe enough to warrant an EP assessment. Am pretty hacked off about this to put it mildly.

Have any of you used private EPs and what was the outcome?
Is it awfully espensive?

<<btw, I know a dx of asd will not change the provision ds1 gets in any way, however, as he gets older I would like to think a dx will mean that future teachers/TAs will be aware and make allowances. I also wonder if they might be able to give us some tips on how to manage better?>>

bochead Mon 04-Jul-11 11:17:04

So you make a note of the provision the new school promise. Track and monitor whether they walk the walk on a day to day basis as opposed to just blow hot air at tribunal.

If in 6 months they have not delivered what they said they would you apply again, but this time with MUCH better evidence on your side from the get go. If your child is getting what they need (far more likely now you've shown that you are willing to take it all the way to tribunal) then alls good. Hopefully it'll be the latter scenario.

magso Mon 04-Jul-11 11:48:42

You must feel exhausted and deflated, but is not the end. Agree with the others above - you are all wiser and in a better position to support/ fight for support

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 11:53:06

Hi Agnes, the school are saying they are giving ds all the help he needs, despite my independent reports and even the LA expert reports saying ds needs more.

At Tribunal the school were saying that ds is meeting targets, despite there being no evidence of this.

However ds continues to make academic progress (on one to one assessments/tests), as he always has, as he has never had any difficulties with one to one tests. Although all reports highlight that in the class room he gets very little work done in comparsion to his peers. So for how long this will continue remains to be seen.

CQrrrneee Mon 04-Jul-11 11:56:26

I find it hard to understand why some schools do this, but have seen it with my own eyes. Personally I think it's arrogance.
I also think it's wrong that so much importance placed with the opinions of teachers who have no SEN qualifications.

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 11:57:58

Hi Becroo, how can Paed say that your dc's difficulties dont warrant assessment by EP, unless EP assesses they will not know the extent of the difficulties!!

I have found that EP's are good if they child has academic difficulties ie below average in reading, math etc, etc. But if the difficulties are speech, understanding, social, emotional etc, etc they are pretty crap even the private ones.

It cost us about £800 for private EP for Tribunal and about £300 for private EP not for Tribunal.

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 12:08:02

Bochead, new school didnt promise any more help at the Tribunal than what they are already giving.

Ds gets:-

3 times a week 'jump ahead group' for help with movement.
3 times a week social skills group
3 times a week one to one SALT with TA

and thats about it.

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 12:13:13

Would also add, jump ahead, social skills and SALT are not in ds's IEP, so no targets etc, etc. They monitor progress by 'ds is doing well' says Mrs so and so!

Ds's IEP targets are unrelated for example 'for ds to express to a member of staff his worries at least 5 times. Another is for ds to eat a certain amount of lunch eat day etc, etc.

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 12:20:35

CQ, i agree totally they rely on teachers to highlight difficulties when they are not qualified to do so.

Thats the whole point of hiring experts, SALT, EP's, OT's. I feel i spent a great deal of money getting the opinions of experts, for them to be ignored by the Tribunal and the school.

The school are only implementing recommendations from the LA experts, even then ignoring or side stepping some of them which involve one to one support etc, etc.

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 12:30:11

So where do i go from here?

I cannot put pressure on the school to implement recommendations, as the Tribunal have ruled that ds is receiving the support that he needs, despite reports.

I did phone the school today after receiving ds's end of year report, it was a glowing report, but did not mention any of his difficulties. I have asked for a written update on his difficulties etc as most of them are not written into his IEP.

What else can i do to prepare for another request for a statement, if i need to do so in 6 months?

Becaroooo Mon 04-Jul-11 12:55:29

Claw I would say just keep documenting evidence for next 6 months. And keep up pressure on school.

School have said that if ds1 stops making progress (he is making progress albeit very very slowly) then they will get the EP in.

Its been ds1's problem his whole life...yes he has problems, yes he has issues, but they arent severe enough to enable person A to tick box B that will get him help C....its so depresssing.

I find IEPs a load of crap tbh

Becaroooo Mon 04-Jul-11 12:57:16

Ds1's issues are to do with academic ability so I guess an EP would be the go to person?

Am seriously thinking of getting a private EP to see ds1...as I said, wont change provision for him, but may mean he is better understood and that they wont try and make him do things he simply cant.

Claw3 Mon 04-Jul-11 14:54:18

Becaroo, EP's can perform specific assessments. The difficulty i have with ds, is when assessed on a one to one basis he scores highly in most tests, because the conditions are ideal for him, one to one, everything explained to him, quiet room, no distractions etc, etc.

However in the classroom, he cannot perform to that standard and gets very little work done when observed. So on paper he is a very able boy, in the classroom its a different story.

I have spent over a thousand pounds, just on EP assessments. School can take or leave whichever recommendations they please unfortunately and there is not a lot i can do about it without a Statement in place.

Have you thought about applying for a SA, then EP would have to assess?

magso Mon 04-Jul-11 15:16:06

We got a private EP assessment and it was really helpful (if shocking). However IIRC there is a problem if the private EP sees the child after the school EP. The local education lot then ignore the 2nd ( private ) report or rather 'just' treat it as part of the parental contribution and ignore there after. In our sons case the private EP assessment was more wide reaching and looked at what was right for our child. The school EP was more for advising the school how best to support the child with their resources not nessesarily the same thing.

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