Meeting with Ds1's HT/teacher/SN teacher on thurs.....help!!!

[Becaroooo]

So.

Have had the paed letter/report and the GARS-2 questionairre to fill in and have the appt booked with the HT for 9am thurs morning.

Basically, the paed does not think ds1 has autism....the letter states he may have "subtle asd traits" (?) He also said he does not seem to have any mild CP (great news!) and that he witnessed "some meaningful social interaction" at clinic.

He as asked for ds1 to be assessed by the Ed Psych and that he feels ds1's problems mean he needs to be assessed for dyslexia (yeah, right, I've been telling anyone who would listen that for 3 years!!!!)

I already know - from a very brief chat with the HT last week - that they are not getting the EP in. I must have looked pretty pissed off because she then said "we arent being obstructive, he needs to be seen by the spld (?) team"

Not sure how I feel about this tbh. The letter requested an EP evaluation so why isnt he getting one? What is spld?

I am also a bit that the special needs teacher is going to be in this meeting...she has only seen ds1 about 3 times (she has had to have a lot of time off as her husband has been ill) and when she did the initial assessment on ds1 (back in jan) she told me she had "no concerns"

I am not trained, but even I can see ds1 has many issues wrt literacy...he has major tracking and convergence issues. He is going up to year 4 in Sept and is currently reading at a year 1 level.

He still guesses at HF words and gets words mixed up/wrong way round. His writing is HUGE and he finds cursive very difficult.

Surely, that would raise some concern? surely??

Really dont want to lose it in the meeting but am really afraid I will.....am so sick of teachers telling me "hes fine!!" when I know he isnt.

Advice, please!!!!!!

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

Hmm, you need Indigo, I think. SPLD is specific learning difficulty, of which dyslexia is the main type, so they are getting the dyslexia team involved. That sounds like it's the dyslexia outreach, or advisory teaching team. Which is good, as they are specialists but they aren't as qualified as the EP to look at all educational needs.

Don't worry about the SENCo getting involved, it sounds more a case of better late than never. She'll need to be involved, that's her job! In my school the HT delegates all the SEN stuff to her, (but then he's a wanker.)

With the HUGE writing thing, has dyspraxia been mentioned at all? Does he have any fine motor issues?

Becarooo, the fact that your DS doesn't seem to have ASD is really positive, you know! Even if he's actually just borderline, it bodes well for his future. It just means that getting the right support is a bit trickier. See these people on Thurs, have your list of concerns in writing, have your ideal outcome in writing, whether that is getting specialist support for dyslexia, some 1:1, a better SMART IEP, an assessment by the EP or requesting SA. The last may not be appropriate, I don't know, but if the Paed had said to get EP involved I wouldn't let them fob you off with spld team alone.

[CQrrrnee]

agree with Ellen Jane - you definitely need the Ed Psych report. Do not let them fob you off.

[flyingmum]

The SENCO HAS to be there because she will be the person who is doing all the paperwork and writing and coordinating all the reports.

You know we teachers aren't all evil bastards and if you go in thinking that they have the best interests of your child at heart and are positive and pleasant then they should hopefully be more supportive. I do agree that his literacy does seem very behind and it does suggest a literacy difficulty which could well be diagnosed as dyslexia. The severe dyslexics I teach have quite a few asd characteristics as well. There are real shades of grey between areas of need.
The spld team mean the Severe Specific Learning Difficulty team. This is probablly funded by your county or possibly localish special school ??? and is an outreach service of specialists. It may be that they might well be of far more use than an Ed Psych but I would push for your child to be seen by the Ed Psych anyway. A word of caution. Ed Psychs vary and I have had experience of some that have been total chocolate tea pots. Also they vary as to areas of expertise. Our one in our school is very good with EBD but pants with SPLD and has just caused a bloody nightmare with one particular kid. They also have a very wide area to cover so a school might not have that regular access to one. They key thing to get out of the meeting is

1. Getting an acknowledgement that your child has fallen behind significantly in their literacy.
   
2. KEY: WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO ABOUT IT. You can have all the specialists in the world but if they are not going to put any programmes in place then it is not going to solve anything. By the sounds of it your child needs more than one small group session a week. They need one to one sessions focussing on phonic development and indivdiual reading.
   
3. Key words to use (I find these very helpful when trying to squeeze more money, support, anything really out of our LEA - I spend my time writing endless sodding reports - the laughable thing being that they have just taken up my recommendations for ammending a child's statement A YEAR after I wrote the report from the annual review - hey ho!) 'significant delay'. 'More than 3 years behind peers'. 'negative impact on self esteem'.
   

Also at the meeting try to find out some of the good stuff your child is doing at school. This will make you feel better and give you someting to praise him with and also he may have some really good skills that other kids just don't have or that are underdeveloped. Keeping self esteem up is the most important thing.

[Becaroooo]

Thanks flyingmum

What a helpful post

I will be making notes and contacting parent partnership too as I feel very "at sea" with all this atm.

Ds1 is very happy at his new school - which is great - and all the teachers I have met I have liked, however, I must get ds1 the help he needs before he falls even further behind his peers and if that means ruffling a few feathers then so be it.

Can I ask your advice? I need to know what ds1's levels are prior to the meeting (eg: 1c, 1a etc) how best to go about it? Ask the HT tomorrow? Get Parent Partnership to ask?

Have had some great advice from indigo too so have lots to do this week!

[TotalChaos]

class teacher should know the levels, so if you get on with her I would ask her for them.

ps I relate re:subtle traits, that's pretty much my DS's diagnosis (language delay with subtle social communication difficulties), so it's interesting to hear of another kid who falls somewhere outside the diagnostic criteria.

[Becaroooo]

TC I know. I am just so sick of it

Ds1 seems to have "fallen through the cracks" his whole life....as a neonate, as an infant, and know in formal schooling. His has "issues" but those issues dont tick the right boxes on the right forms so he gets no help at all.

I wonder when he will be classed as "bad enough" to get the help he needs???

[TotalChaos]

remember you now have the paed behind you re:dyslexia assessment, so you shouldn't be fobbed off as over protective mother. In terms of this spld team, find out at the meeting exactly when the referral is being made, and how long you have to wait (and who they actually are, in terms of qualifications!)

[Becaroooo]

Oh lord, Indigo told me the "level" ds1 should be at wrt literacy and I have COMPLETELY forgottten!



ds1 is nearly finished year 3...what "should" his levels be? i.e. whats the average

TIA

[IndigoBell]

By the end of Y3 school will have a target for children to be at least a 2A.

This is not the average, it's the minimum expected level....

So if he's a 2A he's fine, a 2B or 2C he's not doing well (and is 1 year behind), and a level 1 he's doing really badly (and is at least 2 years behind).........

[Minx179]

At the end of KS1 (Y2), the average child is expected to be working at NC level 2 (or 2b), for English, maths and science. However, the range can be between NC level 1-3.

At the end of year 3 the average child would be expected to be a secure level 2 at least, or working towards, or at NC level 3.

NC levels on their own are not particularly helpful, you need some context behind them. There is a massive gap in ability between a child who is working at an insecure level 1 and one who has grasped level one work and is able to meet some elements of level 2 work, but not enough to be classified as attaining level 2.

We have also found that as English has 12 descriptors over speaking and listening, reading and writing that a child being competent in one area, which can raise the overall level, allows the weaker areas to go unacknowledged.

Brief outline here
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Schoolslearninganddevelopment/ExamsTestsAndTheCurriculum/DG_4015959

More indepth info from here, though you'll have to search for descriptors rather than get NC level info
curriculum.qcda.gov.uk/key-stages-1-and-2/index.aspx

Info on what the child should be able to do to meet attainment targets for English; speaking and listening, reading and writing. Links to maths on same page.
curriculum.qcda.gov.uk/key-stages-1-and-2/subjects/english/attainmenttargets/index.aspx

[Becaroooo]

Blimey...its all so complicated isnt it?

Teachers must hate filling out all these forms!!

Have asked for ds1's levels prior to the meeting on thursday and have ordered a reading SATS test I can administer myself to compare!

My gut feeling is that he is a level 1 for literacy and 2 for numeracy.

My nephew who is in year 1 is on a higher reading level than him (although of course my nephew could be miles ahead of the children in his class...who knows???)

I spoke to the HT this morning re; providing me with his levels and she said
"I'll have them for you at the meeting" so I replied very politely that I would like them prior to the meeting

She got a bit defensive and said " we are really pleased with him, he is making good progress"

What would a HT call good progress, do you think?

Cant get through to PP - phone busy so will try again later/tomorrow.

[IndigoBell]

I know exactly what a HT would call good progres - whatever your DS is making

Remind them that 2 sub levels a year is good progress, and anything less is not.

However your problem is that you don't know what level he was a year ago, so neither you (nor the HT) can say if he has made 2 sub levels or not....

Also remind the HT that he needs to make adequate progress, which is pretty much defined as the same progress as his peers...... So in this case 2 sub levels in reading, writing and maths.

What colour book band is he on? I know the NC levels for all the colours... :)

[Becaroooo]

No idea, indigo

His school use lots of different book schemes (Ginn, ORT, Heineman etc) and group them by colour and number...

The book he had over the weekend was a purple 17 ?????

However, that was from the SN teacher - he was bringing home orange band 15 before that one ????

I looked at the last ORT one he had and it said it was a level 5. He was on level 6 when he left his last school 18 months ago!!!!

sigh.

[IndigoBell]

This chart says that 17 is turquoise band and a level 1A,

ORT level 5 is green band, expected level end of Y1, a reading age of 5.5, and a level 1B.....

So it seems reasonable to assume your DS is working at a level 1B or 1A. Which you will be able to prove when you get the reading SATS paper. The reading test starts at a Level 2. So if he can't read it - then he is a level 1.

If he is currently a 1B or 1A, then there is no way he could have made adequate progress this year......

[Becaroooo]

God, I'm confused!

Will be VERY interested in what they are saying his levels are...........

[Becaroooo]

Right, tonight he has brought home 2 books;
1 x orange band 15
1 x turquoise band 18

Based on your info indigo, I make that a 1a?

So, if he began back in November as a 1c (which is entirely possible) they can say he has gone up 2 sub levels and therefore has made adequate progress?

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

Becaroooo, his decoding ability may well have improved, but it is still well below average. But more importantly, has his comprehension of what he is reading improved by the same margin? With ASD traits I'd guess not. I'm not so experienced wrt dyslexia, TBH. I tend to assume that reading and/or writing is the problem but comprehension (and I mean subtle comprehension skills of inference and deduction/ reading between the lines) is not affected. With ASD reading / decoding may be average but the comprehension just isn't comparable. For example, my DS could tell you the teddy fell in the puddle and that the girl was crying, but couldn't make the connection why the girl was upset. Does your DS have reading/writing problems alone or including comprehension?

[IndigoBell]

Yep, exactly.

They will claim he was a 1c, and he's now a 1a so he's made adequate progress.

I suspect he wasn't a 1c in Nov - but you won't be able to prove that now...

But either way, a 1a at this stage in Y3 is unacceptable. :(

So you have to just keep banging on about that. He is in Y3 and is working 2 years behind where he should be......

School should be doing Reading Recovery with him. Plus he needs to be seen by both the EP and the SpLD team.

And you need to keep on with the INPP......

[TotalChaos]

does he have difficulties with understanding spoken language as well? just wonder if he could do with a speech therapy assessment?

[Becaroooo]

ellen His comprehension is pretty good tbh. He tries to read fast as he hates it and that does affect it, but he would understand why the girl was upset in your anaolgy.

indigo I know. But I already know - from her words yesterday - that they feel it is acceptable. Oh dear.

TC He has the vocab of a teenager!! He can speak very well and use quite complex words and analogies so SALT isnt needed IMO (and paed didnt request it either)

[Becaroooo]

Am ringing PP today.

We need support with this meeting

[Becaroooo]

OK...got ds1's levels from his teacher this morning;

Reading - was 1b is now 1a

Writing - was 1a is now 1a

Maths - was 2b is now 2a

So if I understand it right, since November last year;
He has gone up 1 sub level in reading (and now is 2 years behind his peers).
His levels in writing are unchanged.
He has gone up 1 sub level in maths (and is now classed as average).

Thats not good is it?

I knew his level for maths would be better than his reading and writing but am shocked he has made no progress at all with writing and only 1 sub level in reading....the HT says they are "really pleased" with this.

Its strange, his levels are pretty much what I thought and yet I am still really upset

[IndigoBell]

This is great news! You have enough evidence of 'inadequate progress' to apply for a statement

Seriously, his levels are bad. But the good news is that they told them to you before the meeting, and have been honest.

And - you can apply for a statement on these levels. Ask PP about that as well when you talk to them.......

And now you should ask them why they think he has made good progress when he clearly hasn't....... Have a right go at them. They should not be 'really pleased' - they should be 'really upset'.

This meeting needs to not be only about 'what are they going to do to support him' - but also needs to be about changing their attitude so that they expect great progress out of him - so that they expect him to catch up with his peers.....

Good luck.

[Becaroooo]

Have rung PP.

Someone is getting back to me - but it may be tomorrow

I will ask PP about applying for a statement for him.

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

Don't be sad, be angry. He sounds like he's got great potential, good comprehension skills, fairly good maths skills, he just needs better support. Use this information to get what he needs.

(Be a little bit sad if you want, I'm not really a bully!)