good and bad news!

[CherryMonster]

ok, so after discussions with school, they think that due to the amount of progress that ds2 (10) has made at school this year, if he can progress well next year he should be fine to go to mainstream secondary school in sept 2012. the school SEN has recommended that dd1 (6) might do better in a special school for children with behavioural and emotional difficulties. not quite sure how i feel about this yet.

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

CherryMonster, great that your DS is making good progress, MS secondary is a scary step! My DS starts in Sept. Watch this space!

What DX does your DD have? BESD school can be exactly the right place for some, but definitely not all children with SEN.

[CherryMonster]

she doesnt have a firm dx yet, psychiatrist says its not adhd, but thinking possibly odd and some kind of sensory disorder.

[bochead]

What's the nature of dd1's disability? I ask as my local ebd school is by the staff's own admission excellent for adhd kids but not at all suitable for asd children.

[CherryMonster]

we dont strictly know yet boc, we are thinking odd and some form of sensory disorder

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

That was my worry, CherryMonster. DC with ASD need good role models which they are unlikely to get in EBD or BESD schools. I really don't know enough about ODD to comment. Good that her needs are being taken seriously at least.

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

Justa! Perhaps best to put ODD in capitals!

[CherryMonster]

justabout-

ok, she is really struggling in mainstream school, she has been there 18months and been excluded 5 times. the special school teaches ages 5-11, and has a total of 44 pupils with over 20 staff with no more than 8 children to a class with at least 3 adults.

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

I'd visit and see if you could see where your DD would fit in. I found it really hard when my DS started a SS when he was 3, as he was just DS to me and the other children had SEN! Ridiculous, obviously, as DS had easily diagnosable ASD and fitted in really well. In fact, I loved his time there, with staff who could cope and understood how he ticked, and other parents who understood how I felt.

You have to visit and talk to the staff.

[CherryMonster]

yes i think i will want to visit. my only concerns are that the school is either residential or day, but if she attends days only its a 40 minute taxi journey each way. she is very well behaved in cars, but i think she will be knackered every day.

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

She may well sleep on the way home. It's a long day, but a small price to pay for the right environment. What are your thoughts about boarding?

[bochead]

The NAS warns about being given ODD as a diagnosis - please ring their helpline and get some advice fast. www.autism.org.uk/About-autism/All-about-diagnosis/The-use-and-misuse-of-diagnostic-labels.aspx

I'm guessing a lot of her behavioral issues may be to do with her sensory problems making a mainstream environment intolerable. People are always stunned when I say l look forward to the summer hols as a month with his sensory irritants under control (for us it's noise and home is quiet) and my son is a different lad. If I'm on the right path then it's small classes and a calm environment she needs - not all ebd units fit that bill despite the high pupil teacher ratio.

Sensory issues impacting behavior isn't something I think the educational system is always used to treating with the right priority. Sensory issues can make "ordinary" environments a living hell for some individuals (think of how people who suffer from claustrophia panic in small spaces and you are on the way to understanding how a mainstream school might affect a child with sensory issues)

Has she seen an OT? Mines a goldmine of knowledge I've not encountered elsewhere.

[CherryMonster]

she hasnt seen an OT yet, but she is involved with CAMHS. she is usually much better at home, but is still very defiant and oppositional at times. (hence the ODD thought)she really struggles with large crowds and a lot of noise (even if it is only background noise) but often makes a lot of noise herself. the school we are looking at has no more than 8 children to a class, compared to nearly 30 at the mainstream school she is currently at. not sure how i would feel about her boarding, she is very little yet to be be staying away from home every week and only coming home at weekends. also, she goes to her dads most weekends, and i am worried that i would never get to see her.

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

6 is too young for boarding IMO, but didn't want to say that before you! Are you definitely ruling out ASD? Sensory issues can be all consuming for some children with an ASD DX. Would be a bit worried about EBD school if it is the sensory issues causing the behaviour. Worth looking at Bochead's link. I suppose the feeling is that it couldn't be worse than her current school?

[CherryMonster]

right, have looked at boc's link, and dont quite get it. does this mean that dd1 has ASD?

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

Hi CherryMonster, no, it doesn't mean she has ASD, just that ODD is seen by some professionals as a poor DX which just describes the symptoms and not DXing the cause. What is causing your DD's behavioural problems? If it is sensory issues, they are a common symptom of ASD. It might just be an idea to read up on ASD to see if you think your DD may fit the triad of impairments, because if she does have ASD, the EBD school would probably not be appropriate. Girls are notoriously difficult to DX with ASD as they are naturally more empathic and communicative.

We are not saying your DD has ASD, of course not, we've no idea, but just that ODD isn't a very useful DX. Just food for thought, maybe a good idea to read up a bit, as this school suggestion is fairly imminent, I'd guess?

[bochead]

Ellen's right - I wasn't trying to say that your child is asd - no way anyone could tell that over the internet!

Many medics are very disparaging of ODD as a diagnosis as they feel it tells them nothing about an individuals needs - makes it hard to access appropriate help. I am currently gaining bitter experience of the usefulness of a "sloppy diagnosis" - (think chocolate teapot!) and would like others to be able to avoid the same fate if I can.

The NAS have a magnificent data base of useful info on local contacts that includes related disorders from dyslexia to auditory processing disorder to dyspraxia. They told me WHO to ask to be referred to - which is often half the struggle. With a school choice looming I thought a call to them might cut down some research hours for yourself.

Serious behavioral issues in kids as young as ours usually have a root cause. Find that root cause and you have something to work with in order to improve that child's long term quality of life.

[keepingupwiththejoneses]

My ds3 5 asd and sld was in a base in a mainstream schol and lasted 1 term but is now in SS and has an hour bus ride, it is along day 7.55am - 4.20 and it did take him a few days to get used to it but I knew when I saw the school that it was going to be perfect for him and they have brought him on from strength to strength, the progress he has made it amazing.
My advice is to go and have a look at the school with an open mind and see if you get a good feeling for the school. If it proves to be that your dd does well, she can be moved back to mainstream after an annual review . It is harder to get into a SS than it is to get out.

[CherryMonster]

thanks guys. the thing is, even if she had a dx of asd, the school she is in would not be suitable as they just seem to have a vendetta against her. its funny because i have two other dc in the same school including one with an asd, and they are doing great.

[EllenJaneisnotmyname]

Some MS schools just don't want or know how to deal with any behavioural issues beyond the quite minor. If you have a DC with ASD already, I guess you know what you're looking for! But it's very true that ASD signs are as different as personalities are different! Once you've seen this school you'll have a better idea if it will be good for your DD.

It's sounds like leaving her in her MS school is really not an option. Does she have a statement? Is she in the process of Statutory Assessment?

[CherryMonster]

ok, right, yes she and ds2 have completely different personalities. she is very bright, articulate and stroppy with no real learning problems other than her behaviour and concentration. ds2 is very happy, sweet and just kind of bumbles along. quite severe learning problems, balance and co-ordination issues, but his behaviour is good. she has a statement of 15.5 hours 1-2-1 plus 5 lunchtime hours. MS school could be an option but not the one she is at. only real issues there are 3 other children to get to school and no car, its the closest school to our home.