AS daignosis. Awaiting EP assess. school refuse set up SA & IEP.

[Oblomov]

Diagnosis letter arrived from CAMHS 2 weeks ago. Daignosed ASD, naming Aspergers.So I arranged a meeting with partnership-with-parents ( to support me), senco, head, teacher, and school link worker.
Diagnosis recommneded EP assessemnt. I requested an IQ test as part of that, and although objected school finally agreed.
Pwp asked them to contact outreach. they objected and then agreed. so an asessment will be done by outreach. aswell.
pwp asked school why no SA or IEP and they said no need. said thta ds displays no problems at school. and so refused to set up SA or IEP.
they basically dismiss everything. dismiss the diagnosis. saying "they see no evidence of anything". when asked about why ds was not doing so well acadmically, seeing as he's so bright (although he is doing very well), head said they thought his lack of prediction skills and lack of comprehension was down to "immaturity". so thus, dismissing empathy and theory of mind problems that paed and clinical pyschologist and also the CAMHS diagnosis letter, had highlighted.

So basically, I got nowhere.
PWP said, don't push, lets wait for the EP assessment.
He currently gets no assistance what-so-ever. Nothing. other than 'emotionally literacy on a monday'. He gets NOTHING ELSE.
And many Mn'ers have suggested moving schools.
And applying for a statement.
Both of which I am considering.
I did threaten school with applying for statement. pwp said that LEA woyuld laugh it off, because school haven't even done some of the basics yet.
But in the meantime, waiting for EP assessement and outreach assessment, is there anything I should be doing, in the meantime?

I have basically been discharged from Camhs. I have an appointment with a new paed in sept. I went to the old paed sept last year. he said there was nothing wrong with ds, come back in 12 mths. since then I got myself into CAMHS and now have a diagnosis. So when I meet new peaed, I am hoping that 'something' will begin.

Please advise what I should be doing next.

[StarChartEsq]

Apply for a statutory assessment. The LA may well 'laugh it off' but they have to give a reason for refusing and if this reason is that the school aren't doing enough then you can hit the school over the head with that.

tbh it doesn't matter that the school aren't doing enough. There is a reason for that too. Possibly completely lack of training or resources, in which case you can get a statement saying that your ds needs to be educated by people who have attended a training day on ASD.

Don't be put off.

[IndigoBell]

Ok, what exactly do you want school to do? What do you think his problems at school are? What would you like to see on his IEP?

[Oblomov]

The school has a large proportion of SN children. I speak to the mums of other SN children and they rave about how fab the senco is.
School say they see no anxiety, no this , no that, no nothing.
They said to pwp that they go beyond the call of duty to make sure all children are cared for. And that if they had any concerns, they would have actioned them and talked to the parent before. "Becuase this is what we do". "We do more than is necessary". A number of their TA's have been on Early Bird training.
They basically say that they see nothing wrong with ds. As if I've got munchausens and am making it all up, just for a bit of attention, myself !!!

Everyone tells me I need to work with the senco. But I can't. Because they dismiss everyhting I say and refuse everyhting I request.

They have had Aspergers children here before. I think they genuinely believe that my son is not.
And I feel like grabing them round the throat and yelling " I don't care what you think. no one's asking what you f**king think. just do as the professionals tell you. Have the humility to accept that you were wrong and just get on with it".
But it may be best, if I keep that outburst to myself

[Oblomov]

At home is is very anxious and very sad. very oppositional. answering back. really gobby.
His friendships are one-sided. He likes them more than they like him. He gets bullied and teased at school. They have had some boys in the heads office admitting it. But school now say there is not a problem. They say they see him playing football nicely, and there are no issues.
At school he needs some help with his handwriting. Nothing major. Can be neat. But often illegible. finding the transition to joined up writing very hard. his joined up is awful. I did ask if he could just have a couple of extra lunchtime sessions, or something.
He has stagnated in his reading. I know they all go through peaks and troughs. But he should be on a higher level. considering how bright he 'supposidly' is.
Teacher says his comprehenesion fails him. And he can not predict. These are classic AS symptoms. And I do not know how to help these particular problems, but surely senco should be advising ME, on what to try here.
in maths same. very good. but on the long worded questions he seems to get confused. when on straight maths, he flies through it.

I don't know Indigo. What should I be asking them to do?

[StarChartEsq]

'The school has a large proportion of SN children. I speak to the mums of other SN children and they rave about how fab the senco is'

Sounds like my ds' school. The problem with this schools is that they ARE good at what they do, but it doesn't meet my ds' needs.

They are good at engaging with hard to reach parents (of which there are a lot) and the SENCO is good at getting provision for parents who haven't got a clue who then remain eternally grateful. The trouble is, their engagement with parents is all on their terms and it makes them feel all warm and fluffy inside that they have 'helped'.

When they get someone like me, a parent who not only is easily engaged but actually went seeking them out, they run in the opposite direction and slam the door. They haven't set the agenda. They haven't planned the engagement. They are scared out of their wits and in utter denial when I explain to them that I know what to do because, well, parents don't in their experience and quite frankly it is a personal insult to imply that you just might know something they don't.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"And many Mn'ers have suggested moving schools.
And applying for a statement.
Both of which I am considering".

I would argue that even with a Statement this current school of his would not want to really help your son

See if the new paed appt can be moved forward from September; sometimes there are cancellations.

Consider no more re your above comment. To paraphrase the Nike expression - Just do It!!!. Further delay will neither help you or your DS.

[IndigoBell]

It's really hard.......

I presume you can't move school. Because if your relationship is that bad with the SENCO you should move heaven and earth to move school.....

It doesn't sound like he needs full time 1:1, nor does it sound like he has no issues - so he needs something in between.

1. Support at lunchtime. Either a place in a structured lunchtime club, or a dinner lady assigned to keep an eye on him. The dinner lady must be somebody he has a good reln with and he feels comfortable talking to. A dinner lady used to ask my DS 'how are you?' before he went back into class after play.....
   
   
2. Handwriting intervention ( Write from the Start?)
   
   
3. Social skills intervention?
   
   
4. Reading comprehension intervention (if his actual reading is fine)? (RWI Comprehension?)
   
   (I'd probably leave Maths for now.....)

[Oblomov]

Star, you are so right. The school link worker described them as 'insular'. They think they do a fab job. Thats becasue they do it on THEIR terms. They don't like being told what to do. And thus, as you say, the parents seem to be eternally grateful.
O.k. Star, so give me the benefit of your experience. how do I handle it better ? what do you do, that I could learn from you ? How do YOU get the best out of them ?
Attila, there really is no other choice, other than to change schools ? School Link worker is coming to my home on monday. I will ask her what the alternative schools are.

[IndigoBell]

There really is no other choice besides changing schools.

You will never change the SENCO and HT........

[StarChartEsq]

Ob - I moved schools

Seriously. DS is going into Reception 20 miles away from his Nursery school.
I used his statement to get him into a school who are used to parents banging on their door and as such have good and efficient parent-management strategies otherwise they wouldn't cope.

This is a double-edged sword of course, but at least I won't be going to meeting after circular meeting spiriling through the school year with my ds falling down the whole in the middle.

[StarChartEsq]

down the hole.

Changing schools isn't admitting defeat, it is demonstrating control.

[Oblomov]

Becasue its one of the top schools in surrey. Because places are so sought after. Becasue it has a very good reputation. And considered to have a very loving ethos. which I also thought and think it does have.
Because he loves it. and seems happy. sort of. and is doing o.k. academically.
And I did not know that ds1 was SN when I made my application. But even now, I know he does, it is supposed to have a very good sn reputation.
And that the other 2 primaries in town have a very poor reputation. Not just bad but truely awful.
And the 3 or 4 schools on the outskirts are considered to be very good. And have long waiting lists.

So I know not where to look next. And I wanted a school I could walk to. with ds2 going to school in 2 yrs time.
And the fact that as a diabetic, I have just lost my licence. for apparent 'hypo unawareness'. which is nonsense. But i am fighting currently to get it back. And have been unable to drive for 2 weeks. And it has been a killer. I may have to quit my p/t job if i don't get it back soon.
So the thought of having to drive him any distance to another school, fills me with dred.

Any of these sounding any good ?
or do they all sound a bit weak.
Plus pwp said I would not get him into a special school without a statement. And she said that all the ones she knew had extremely long waiting lists.
which I heard that too. Freemantles in Woking in considerd fab. with a list as long as your arm. And the Easy Bird and Outreach ladies are based there.
Plus I couldn't get him to Woking of an morning.

Is this all sounding too weak to you ?

[TotalChaos]

what sort of poor reputation do the nearby schools have? Just that DS's school has a poor reputation locally, but I suspect that's mostly snobbery re:intake (it's in the middle of council estate), most recent ofsted was good.

[IndigoBell]

If there is no other school you can logistically move to, then you can't move.

But, put your name on the waiting list for every other school you can get to.

It is not one of the top schools in Surrey. Or at least it is failing your child, so it's not a good school for him..... No matter what everybody else thinks.

In the mean time, you can either wait until he gets worse, and then school will notice his problems

Or you can make yourself a total PITA and make appointments with the SENCO and teacher every 5 minutes asking about your concerns

Or things can continue the way they are

Or you can complain to the governors

Or you can ask PP for their advice

They should treat bullying very seriously. If they're not complain and complain. The governors are the right next step......

[Oblomov]

thesis, 'all or nothing' ? do you mean i should just hold fire until I have the EP done, and have applied for a statement, until I start investigating that avenue ?
Chaos, 2 other schools in our town, the ofsteds are not good ( not that I am that bothered by ofsted, or take much notice of their 'scoring', to be honest). And the parents I talk to , say both schools are poor, the results are poor. They only ended up there as there was no other option, (There are only 3 schools in our town, one good, catholic, which is where we are, and 2 not so good ones), parents wish there was an alternative,for them. But they say there isn't because they would need to go to one of the neighbouring towns. And there, the good ones have long lists, and the ones that have places, they are as bad as the ones they are in.

[IndigoBell]

It really doesn't sound like a special school would be right for him.

You don't care about either OFSTED or results. What you are looking for in a school is one with great pastoral care. And really until you start at a school you won't know what it's like.....

But I'd def ring the 'bad' schools and ask to look round them before you judge them....

[Oblomov]

Indigo, why not special school? becasue is is so SN mild/ borderline. I don't even think his AS is thta bad. so I can't get why school doesn't do some of the basics to help him.
Indigo, the bullying was bad int he autumn term. since then it is a bit sporadic. in fact I wouldn't even go as far as saying it was bullying. I have no ide what ds says tot he other boys when he is at school. if he says something thta upsets them, how could I possibly know this ?
sometimes , I have seen with my own eyes, he is so incredibly caring, and sometimes he is so nasty, says such awful things. Its no wonder he struggles with freindships.
No one has invited him round to play this acadmic year. I have had 3 boys here, all twice. school told camhs, its in the report, that his freindships are reciprocated and they he goes to other boys for tea. I questioned this with them. school said that if it was a mistake to take it up with camhs. camhs had said i needed to go back to the school on it. its only a petty thing. but its wrong. and it undermines my point that he is struggling with friendships.

[IndigoBell]

Special schools are all for kids with very serious problems who really can't cope in MS......

Your child is coping in MS, just not doing as well as he should.......

If you don't want to choose bullying, choose one very specific thing. His handwriting, or his lack of reading progress, or any one thing. Then get them to agree that that one thing is a problem, and that they can help with that......

[Oblomov]

That is true Indigo. special school is for thsoe who have more needs than ds. there are other children who need a place there much more than my child does. it would be like robbing someone else of their entitlement.
so I guess I need to just get one with it.
I can't force then to give him IEP's. But I can ask for them to deal with one thing at a time.
Or atleast try that. I'm not getting anywhere currently. so I have to try something.

[growingstrawberries]

from what I know of Freemantles (which admittedly is not a huge amount), it is not a school for children who are doing ok academically.

it is considered a very good school. and is very good at what it does. but I wouldn't send an academically able child there, if I had the choice.

(this is NOT AT ALL the same thing as the places there being for children who need the place more. if I thought it was suited to your ds, I would without hesitation say go for it. the other children, and their needs, are not your concern. your ds is your concern)

agree with IndigoBell - pinpoint what you want to improve, and suggest strategies for this. it is a long hard fight. but the alternative is, well, not an alternative.

and, given your situation with DVLA at the moment, it would be very tricky moving your ds.

[Tiggles]

Sorry no time to read all replies - got to go to a meeting tonight, but just to let you know my experience.
DS1 started off in an apparently good school. But it was terrible for him. School refused to see any problems - even the fact that he spent the first two terms literally hidden under a table and threw a tantrum if they tried to get him out, was considered normal! When I finally got a paed in to see him in the March (was meant to be December but cancelled due to snow, then school kept cancelling) the school said "they won't see any odd behaviour, if they had only come last week..." the paed however saw lots of odd behaviour. In the end I pulled him out of the school to home-ed him. The school offered as a temptor to keep him there "we can let him use a computer in school if you like" bear in mind by this point I had an OT report that stated he was phobic of writing because of the school!! So I still pulled him out.

I put him into a new school where he was a million times better off. He was so much happier he was a lot less stressed and his autism did become much less obvious. The new school still didn't really see he had autism (although noted he was sensitive)- but at least they were good at getting him out from under the table and encouraging him to join in! However, I gave them the diagnosis when I received it. They did ask if it was NHS or private, and on learning NHS they said fair enough.
I then left it with them for a couple of weeks before speaking to them again. By then they had actually started noticing all the AS behaviour for themselves "oh, he wears his hood up at playtimes even in hot sun to 'hide away' from people", "oh, he is always just on the verge of breaking down with anxiety" etc etc. It took the dx to spur them into motion - now they have just received the written report so they are calling in the Ed Psych so they can get him to recommend 1:1 support. They were reticent to before the report as although DS was acheiving below what they expected for his ability he is still average - above average in everything except spelling/handwriting. Now they have a large number of recommendations that they feel they can use to get the Ed Psych to listen as it were.

so, if your school haven't been motivated by a professionals report I have to be honest that it would probably be better to move schools - if you are sure that your child definitely is having problems at school.

[Oblomov]

Thank you strawberries. It is Ros from Freemantles who is going to come and assess ds as part of the Outreach that pwp persuaded the school to contact her. I had already phoned her, but she said she couldn't help me becasue we didn't have a diagnosis, then.
Miss Green thnaks for your post. You too have said what others have said on this thread and others.
I thought they may get a bit better wehn they had a diagnosis letter. More fool me.
Magnolia, he is 7. Yr2 , so has just done sats. I do think he holfds it together well at school.
He shouted out alot in the beginning of the term and had a behaviour chart for the whole of the autumn term, which they did not tell me about. This was when the other boys teased him as the naughty boy, saying "we're going to make you lose more minutes. your'll lose all your minutes, naughty , naughty boy". school already knew he was being assessed. I was livid. But this was just the start.
At home he is so anxious. and defiant. at school he sounds like an angel. football he was asked to leave. At beavers he was nearly asked to leave. karate they said he was awful and they could not cope with him, but now they say he is doing very well.
I Do take on board what magnolia says about the sachool putting into place alot of good sn stuff, subtely, I think they are probably very very good at this.

I have just had the letter, by e-mail from pwp, re the meeting.
Its a corker. I love it. It details all the twaty things they said. I have a couple of extras to add, then I will ask her to forward it to them.
GRAND