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I want SS to take DS2 away :-(

(23 Posts)
26minutes Tue 14-Jun-11 18:51:00

He's 5. We just can't cope with him anymore. The only thing stopping me is knowing they'd take him straight round to his idiot father. I can't deal with him. DH & I have both come so close to hitting him today. I've seen loads of different people about him, he's been under CAMHS and discharged several times. We saw the lady from CAMHS a couple of months ago. With one breath she said she thinks he has ADHD, with the next she was discharging him. I've phoned her in the hope of being able to leave her a message to phone me straight back in the morning but the phone just rings right out. We have an appointment wiht GP on Monday (will have been waiting 5 weeks for it by the time it comes) to try and get referred somewhere else if there is anywhere else? I can't do this anymore I simply can't.

RogerMelly Tue 14-Jun-11 18:52:05

Is there anything wrong with his Father? could he not stay with him for a bit to give you a bit of breathing space?

HarrietJones Tue 14-Jun-11 18:53:24

Do you have a school nurse? Try them for help re referrals.

How are school? Are they supportive?

Didnt want you to be unanswered but I'm not v knowledgable in diagnoses (and trying to get them!)

sickofsocalledexperts Tue 14-Jun-11 19:15:29

At 6 he can go on medication, such as ritalin, which has been an absolute saviour for people I know. How soon is he 6 , or is he a big 5? GP might make an exception? I agree that you need a break, as long as the "idiot " father isn't actually a danger to your boy?

madwomanintheattic Tue 14-Jun-11 19:19:33

what does your gp say? have you trialled meds?

they are unlikely to intervene if all the usual routes haven't been trialled tbh.

got a helpful granny that can he can go and stay with for a couple of days?

what do school say?

has he seen a developmental paed?

what's wrong with his dad? probably better that he goes and stays with him for a few days if ti will give you a break - i'm assuming he isn't violent/ abusive etc or that there isn't a restraining order in place?

smileANDwave2000 Tue 14-Jun-11 19:30:21

go to the GP bypass HV and ask for a ref stating your concerns and problems and how desperate you are ask to see the child development paed at the hospital insist upon it if that doc wont make (fib if have to saying DS is ill) and go to see another GP take yr DH with you for back up as ive found with DH there they tend to be more receptive and dont just think im a mum with issues trying to cope with an unruly DS that im not imagining it there really IS a problem, also keep ringing them at CAMHS and ask as its different who can prescribe ritalin in some areas my GP prefers CAMHS to do it. in meantime if you cant get a friend or relative to have DS take turns with your DH for some time out,if you ever feel so desperate as you might hit your DS walk into the garden (if patio doors) get some air or this time of year get somehing like bubbles or a owl of water out and cups ect and let him play with it in garden anything to just distract, i usually use distraction most of the time keeping a sweet or toy or dvd as special treats or distraction at end of the day if good while perhaps your shopping whenever basically hes at his worst.
Hows school? next if you have not already see the senco/inclusion teacher for a chat he may be causing probs there too and they can advise youmost of all make sure you keep poping back here to chat if your worried or upset thats what were all here for a bit of moral support.

smileANDwave2000 Tue 14-Jun-11 19:32:29

should read a bowl of water blush

26minutes Tue 14-Jun-11 19:58:53

Thank you for , now posting on phone so apologies for lack of grammar, spelling, short non personal replies :-)

According to woman from camhs they won't do any assessment for adhd until 7 as apparently there's a testosterone surge at 5-6 so they won't so assessment until 7 to count that out. That's why she discharged him. We can't wait another year and a half to start assessment.

School say he's amazing, very quiet, very subdued etc etc. read a quote in adhd book"at home devil, outside angel". Perfect description of ds2.

This latest camhs referral was from school nurse.

Ex is drug and alcohol user but solicitors I've so far seen say not a problem (different thread altogether but we're trying to find a solicitor who agrees it it's a problem)

Monday appointment is after dh finishes work so he can be the calm voice of reason!

My mum couldn't cope with him. I have no other family, dh's family are scattered but gif way from here. Exes family live nowhere near and don't care about the boys at all. No contact since split with him.

Smile-I am going to write ask that down so I know what to ask for. Thank you

coff33pot Tue 14-Jun-11 20:28:06

I am not experienced with ADHD whatsoever my DS is being assessed for AS at the moment and is the same age. I really sympathise with the pressure you are under and on occasions I have to stomp into the garden to get out of the house whilst DH takes over with my DS.

On the Ex side. I have one of those lol although my DD is now a young woman. But when she was 3 she had to go stay with her dad and he was into drugs. I found that she came back angry and agitated after a weekend stay with him (court insisted not me) on more than one occasion and my DH and I put it to his use of dope and that she had been in the room with him and friends and was coming off it. Dont know if your DS stays with him now but wonder if so it could be a contribution to his behaviour? smile

Triggles Tue 14-Jun-11 20:30:08

I would suggest going back into your GP and insisting on a referral to a paediatrician. DS2's paed is unwilling to formally diagnose ADHD/ASD for him until he is a bit older, but that's basically what she believes we are working with. She still has done some assessment, so that she knows how he is doing and what his difficulties are. CAMHS told us that he was too young for them to work with right now.

DS2 (4yo) is nowhere near an angel at school - he's a sweet boy, but has no impulse control whatsoever and I'm pretty sure he is incapable of sitting still for long. (I believe at the last IEP review, they stated they had managed to get him to sit still for 3 minutes maximum - and even then he was fidgeting, just hadn't leapt up out of the chair!)

Is there anything (safe) that he is interested in or obsessed with? For example, DS2 is obsessed with laptops - I know that I can sit down and relax for 20 minutes just monitoring him while he browses web pages (disney store, toys r us, cbeebies mainly! LOL) and looks at toys - his fidgeting translates into about a million page changes a minute, but other than changing positions on the sofa 90 times, he's at least in one place and relatively calm (just chattering constantly). It helps me clear my head. blush So if you can find something that he can do even for 15-20 minutes, perhaps schedule this type of break throughout the day, just to allow yourself a cup of tea or some breathing room? Some days it can make all the difference.

I really hope that things level out for you - the stress can be so relentless sometimes. Please let us know how you are doing!

chumpion Tue 14-Jun-11 20:49:44

Have you been awarded DlA? Could you use some of this to employ a care worker for a couple of hours a week to give you a break.

runningonmt Tue 14-Jun-11 22:46:28

26mins - I know you feel that you cant do this but I know you can - How do I know ? Because you care and if you care you can get through this. Take a long, deep breath.

Do you think it is ADHD ? If you do then do as much research as possible - books, internet, MN threads....... anything because knowledge is power and you sound to me like you feel powerless at the moment. If you can understand the symptoms behind ADHD it can explain a lot of the unwanted behaviour and it will probably make you feel less guilty and less helpless.

Medication is just part of treatment - if you start using some of the behaviour management techniques recomended for ADHD it should start to help (consistancy is the key here - dont expect things to change overnight).

Try to keep a diary if you can - make a note of what happened - how you responded and if it did or didnt work - It will help when you get back to CAAMHS as we often forget stuff when we are in the consultation (my mind often goes blank and i then kick myself after the apt for not mentioning something!!) It will help you work out what does and doesnt work for your DS - it will also help if you get to the stage of applying for DLA if that is what you need to do.

Most techniques work with children with behavioural problems regardless of an official diagnosis of ADHD. Someone on here put it beautifully when they said "if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck then treat it like a duck - if it turns out to be a chicken that likes water then no harm will have been done" - Genious (i wish i could spell).

Your job is to keep your child safe and do what you can to get the help he needs - you are already doing this so dont give up. Some days it will be two steps forward and one step back but you will get there.

Give your DH a hug - he is on your side too smile.

As for his father - avoid at all costs - you will not be sure your DS is safe so that is no sort of respite for you.

Solicitors sound like a dream ...... may not be a problem for them but i bet it would be a different matter if they had to live with him !!!!!!

Good luck and keep in touch. It feels like you have a mountain ahead of you but remember the view from the top is well worth the climb !!!!!! x x x x

madwomanintheattic Tue 14-Jun-11 23:06:40

contact your local sure start centre and ask for details of their paretning courses. often they run 'challenging children' ones as well as littlies stuff (i went on an sn one an age ago) and they can be quite good value.

nadia77 Tue 14-Jun-11 23:20:05

awwwwwww big hug,
do you not have a some sort of respite team i've been told you can get certain number of sitting hours where professional can look after your child in your own home and you can have few hours to yourself? i agree to some of the messages above keeping a log sheet of what triggers his behaviour you may see some sort of pattern which will help you to identify the out bursts.
My ds 4 and has as and also i'm certain adhd but we have decided not to get him diagnosed for this.
You are lot stronger then you think, you just need some breathing space try to find out about the respite team

madwomanintheattic Wed 15-Jun-11 04:12:54

i doubt you would qualify for direct payments without a full assessment and dx tbh... respite is notoriously difficult to get as a two parent family unless there are extenuating circumstances. (alcoholism/ drug abuse as well as the actual disability itself. dd2 has cp and qualified for high rate dla, but we weren't anywhere near making the criteria for respite)

the more noise you make, the more help you are likely to get though. so start with the gp for paed referral, sure start and school nurse. and get back onto cahms if you feel you can't cope in the short term. they may be able to access some mh support for you - family therapy type thing. also speaking to your own gp about how you are feeling (depressed/ can't cope etc) is an important step. can help to speed up referrals for child too.

if he isn't a sleeper (i assume not, as he is school age and you are at the end of your tether) then you can discuss melatonin with the gp. it does help some children, and might be worth a try. and press them when they would be willing to try ritalin/ similar.

i suspect they will put you through the parenting courses mill before offering much else, if i am honest, but keep trying. and do go on the courses. adhd can be vastly improved with meds and good parenting techniques. sometimes it's hard to see the wood for the trees when you are feeling low about it.

26minutes Wed 15-Jun-11 09:26:10

Morning, things seem calmer this morning, but then they do tend to be in general. I've just called CAMHS and waiting for a call back and I made it very clear how urgent it was that she makes me a priority.

I wasn't sure about ADHD for quite a while, but did a bit of research and was surprised how many of the bullet points we could tick, also the same, if not moreso for ODD. I bought the Christopher Green ADHD book and reading it almost felt like a weight had been lifted. It wasn't so much that we could relate to what was written, more like it felt as though we had written it ourselves. I also bought a copy of 123-magic after seeing a lot of recommendations on here for it. It's very similar to what we had already found worked well so we are doing that, but there are times, like yesterday, where he is at his worst and nothing works. Yesterday we were out and he was screaming, growling, biting me, pinching, scratching, headbutting, kicking and hitting. I couldn't let him go because when he's like that he would just run off (where we were is water on one side and a busy road on the other), so letting him run round the field to let off steam wasn't an option in that particular situation.

CAMHS have suggested parenting courses but when I ran off the list of ones I've already been on she crossed it off of her notes.

He is a lovely, funny, caring little boy but I haven't seen that side of him for so long. We used to have good times and bad and his behaviour used to reach a peak before he would suddenly settle down and we could relax for a while, maybe yesterday was his peak. The last 'calm' period we had was last year some time.

Also having read a bit about the causes and how ADHD (and the co-morbidities) can be hereditary and thinking about what the ex-ILs used to say about the ex I would think it very likely that he had/has it himself. He also fits the 'profile' of someone with conduct disorder too, and I'm scared stiff that if we don't get the help and support we need that ds2 is going to go down the same route.

We have a Sure Start centre opposite the house so I will go in there later to see if they have anything.

Mamaz0n Wed 15-Jun-11 09:28:49

Cahms are a nightmare.

You do have my sympathy. Ds was very similar at that age. I would cry with despair frequently.

All I can say is that DS is now 10 and a totally different boy.
My only advice is to ride the storm. That however bad things get, tomorrow is another day.

26minutes Wed 15-Jun-11 12:47:37

CAMHS have been back in touch, she said about the parenting classes again. I'm going along with it then they can't say I haven't tried and they can't say I've turned down help when it's been offered. The group is called 'Triple P'. Has anyone heard of it or done it themselves?

mariamagdalena Wed 15-Jun-11 13:17:14

Hiya 26minutes.

Children under 6 can be given medication. My DS was, and it really did take the edge of the impulsivity and excess activity (admittedly I pushed hard to get it, and we saw a developmental paediatrician not CAMHS). It's complete rubbish about having to wait till they are over the testosterone surge to diagnose.

Because CAMHS are multidisciplinary, they tend to have a lot of non-medical staff. Sometimes they work on the assumption that ADHD is a purely mental health issue and thus will respond best to emotional, family support etc. A paediatrician is a 'proper doctor', so it's easier to argue that adhd is a neurological condition needing medication to control it. Some areas have joint CAMHS/paediatic clinic sessions, even without this you can insist on your DS seeing a psychiatrist ie a CAMHS doctor who can medically assess and perhaps medicate.

Triple P is fine. You might get some ideas. Or some validation of your own methods. If nothing else, it will show you've tried. Step-families, even in this day and age, do have to be careful that the set-up isn't blamed if one of the children is having problems. So it might be worth your DH doing the course as well / instead / perhaps alternating seesions with you. For the same reason, lots of parents wheel out their own mother as back-up at appointments and try to keep the ex-PILS informed and on-side (perhaps better after the court case grin).

mummytime Wed 15-Jun-11 13:21:14

I would do it because a) it might help b) it might help to tell others ow life is for you c) you will seem willing and an outsider will hear some of what you go through.

Are you doing any dietary things? At least keep a food diary (I observed my son, not ADHD, reacted to orange juice). Anything you can control is a help for you.

Also if you reach breaking point do call someone either parentline 0808 800 2222, or the samaritan's, or anyone else.

Do also try to record the good times, to help you remember in the bad.

I hope this helps a little.

mariamagdalena Wed 15-Jun-11 13:25:32

And criteria for adhd say they have to dispay the behaviours in more than one situation. ie home and school. Have you seen him there? is he really ok? (playground, assembly, lunch etc, not just during class). If he's bizarrely subdued at school but bouncing off walls at home and swimming / holiday sports club / granny's, he could still be diagnosed. Otherwise it's more likely that he will end up with a different diagnosis (high functioning asd is one, ODD tends to be seen as a more 'psychological' condition).

26minutes Wed 15-Jun-11 14:19:01

I'm hoping that the Triple P will do weekends so that DH can alo come without taking time off work although I think his boss would be fine if it didn't cause too much disruption as he has been telling DH about his own experiences with his son and so has been through exactly what we are going through.

yes, mariamagdalena, I know what you mean about step-families/break-ups etc getting the blame. On many occasion I've had to stop myself from screaming at them when they've tried blaming that for his behaviour.

I haven't actually seen him myself at school but when we arrive in the year R part of the playground he really goes into himself. Other children try to speak to him but he totally blanks them and won't leave my side. I've spoken to teachers about it several times but they always tell me he gets on well with others etc. There is one thing I'm concerned about and that is they clearly have their favourites in the class and it seems that all other children are pushed aside in favour of these so I do wonder if they would notice any problems. But as he has never been on the 'sad side' he is clearly very different to at home.

He does a gymnastics club each week and I stay and watch. Here he doesn't speak to any of the other children, he is pushed aside by them all and always ends up at the back of the line. He jokes and messes about with the coaches and I have seen him on quite a few occasions doing something that he shouldn't be, e.g. if they are supposed to just jump onto something he will jump and roll onto it, but he gets away with it as he does it in such a silly, clown-like manner.

Re diet, we cut out an awful lot some time ago, there's a big long list of things he can and can't eat, e.g. white bread, shop bought cakes, anything with baking powder, cheap processed food, the list goes on.

We recently started giving him eye-q tablets which we have found really help with the twitching and inability to stand still etc.

I am going to put the parentline number into my phone as I would never think of it. Thank you mummytime for posting it.

saladsandwich Wed 15-Jun-11 19:00:27

i have pretty much no clue whatsover but just wondering, my health visitor once mentioned something called homestart, they are volunteers who come to your house to give you a break, there isnt enough volunteers in my area at the moment but they might have one in yours xx

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