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School lies: what would you do?

(18 Posts)
appropriatelytrained Tue 14-Jun-11 15:52:39

I posted a thread below about S&LT.

Things get better! After asking school about them not undertaking any work on a particular target, in preparation for a meeting with the S&LT tomorrow for the preparation of her TRIBUNAL report, the SENCO has just emailed me with the biggest pile of crap about what work has been done.

It is just pure lies. DS is adamant that this has not happened. He's 8 and bright and he was looking forward to doing one of the tasks in particular and they haven't done any work on it at all.

Seriously, what are you supposed to do with attitudes like this? They'd rather lie than say 'oops, we forgot to work on that target'.

rebl Tue 14-Jun-11 16:06:04

DS was in a school that lied. We ended up having to leave it. We couldn't cope with the lies because they were failing our ds. If they hadn't lied, they still would have been failing ds but at least they would have admitted they couldn't meet his needs and things could have been put in place.

You need to ask for evidence that the work has been done. If something has been done with your ds towards a target then they must be able to show tangible evidence. I seem to remember that there was a computer issue for you that they say they've done and you say they haven't. Ask them for evidence (a photo for example of your ds working at the computer). Most schools take photos all the time as evidence that things are being done. They go into the students learning journey / journal. You look through them and think how nice, whereas the teacher is using it to prove that this work has been done.

appropriatelytrained Tue 14-Jun-11 16:11:30

Thanks. They have got together a 'record' of all the times he has been taking messages to comply with his 'initiating contact' target.

DS says he hasn't been doing this for weeks (until I reminded them about this and they sent him down with the register.

So they would say they have the proof - the stuff they've made up.

appropriatelytrained Tue 14-Jun-11 16:28:24

What really annoys me is that I offered school a way out, suggesting they might have confused themselves about the regularity of work on the target.

It was then that I got an email with a great big pile of lying crap in it.

Maybe DS will feel able to explain himself that this hasn't been done.

StarChartEsq Tue 14-Jun-11 17:08:25

Okay, calm down. It isn't about services 'given' or 'work done', it is about 'outcomes achieved'.

Lying and saying that your ds is getting loads of stuff is not what is important. It doesn't matter what he is getting if it isn't meeting his needs or producing any outcomes. In fact, it is a complete waste of tax payers money if he is getting all that stuff and it isn't making a difference.

Can you get your ds to say/write this? i.e. I was looking forward to doing x, but no-one has told me when it is going to start.

StarChartEsq Tue 14-Jun-11 17:10:10

You know, you can submit video evidence to tribunal. Would you consider a short video interview with your ds?

appropriatelytrained Tue 14-Jun-11 17:29:05

Thanks Star. I know I need to calm down and I am looking for practical tips so do tell me if I'm being completely unreasonable,

The problem is though that will be lying about interventions, and outcomes.

So I know they will say 'DS has been delivering messages happily around the school for weeks, just look at our lovely made-up records, Mrs S&LT, have you ever seen such luverly jubberly progress'. Thereby dealing with services and outcome in one fell swoop!

Indeed the senco suggests that he delivers messages to her personally on a weekly basis as just a small part of what he's been doing. She also says 'perhaps he just can't remember all the lovely message taking he's been doing as it's all a general part of the school day to him and nothing remarkable'

Ds' reaction - 'what, that's a lie, no one asks me to take messages to Mrs X except that one time ages ago'

There is no point about them lying about what he has been doing, if they are not also going to lie about how he has been doing.

DS was not happy about it being suggested that he has been doing this so this might be the way forward

StarChartEsq Tue 14-Jun-11 17:43:47

Can you put down in writing to the SENCO what your ds has said and ask her if she can explain it. Can you ask her if anyone else has witnessed these messages? Can you ask to see the record and go through the dates to see if he was absent/on a trip etc.?

appropriatelytrained Tue 14-Jun-11 17:56:13

Thanks. Have asked for record to go through with him tomorrow. I will ask who sent him on the task etc

Her explanation is to say "is it possible that DS may see many of these type of activities as just a normal part of his day so doesn't feel they are remarkable?"
i.e. he must be mistaken. I have said that he is adamant this is not true.

Obv, I am concerned to move this forward but to make the point that work and any 'progress' is disputed.

StarChartEsq Tue 14-Jun-11 18:12:24

I would video the session where you go through them with your ds. It might give you something great. It might not. But it is possible.

appropriatelytrained Tue 14-Jun-11 18:16:50

Good idea.

You know, no matter how low and Kafkaesque things get, there's always another level lower isn't there?

If people only knew how we lived.

StarChartEsq Tue 14-Jun-11 19:13:08

Yes there is. I had never known evil until I went through this with my ds. I know it now.

I'm not saying individuals are evil, but evil is certainly barefaced and present.

appropriatelytrained Tue 14-Jun-11 19:21:08

I think this is the 'evil' side of state power. Easy to abuse, blunt, unthinking, lacking in personal responsibility, unmoved by personal predicament, chained by policies and processes.

I saw it many times when I was a criminal defence lawyer. Corporate lack of responsibility. You can always blame someone else. No problem 'bending the truth' it's for the 'greater good'.

Sadly we are talking of small children and not adult suspects

runningonmt Tue 14-Jun-11 23:15:12

Schools are great at putting a "positive spin" on everything - they will never admit DS does not do 'this' but they will say that he does do 'that' - not to intentionally lie necesarrily but to be positive ESPECIALLY when it is in a formal format (ie written down).

You can have a chat with the teacher (off the record as such) but if you had a written report on the same conversation it will be worded very differently you would think that it was a different conversation!! You should read my sons report when I applied for DLA - it was all "runnings son is included in all areas of school life" but they never mentioned that it was done but in a different way to everyone else because he couldnt do it the same way as his peers. Unfortunately we lost out on DLA for several years because of their "positive reporting".

They will never put anything in writing which you would be able to use againt them to force them to address their deficiencies.

Where school is concerned you have to put your biggest smile on your face and try to drag assistance out of them without making an enemy of them. It is c**p because we have enough on our plate without having to bend over backwards to appease them but if you want to get ahead,this is what you have to do I am afraid. Sorry I wish i could be more help sad

appropriatelytrained Tue 14-Jun-11 23:48:50

Thanks. The sad fact is that I offered to talk to the teacher 'off the record' and got a load of crap back so they are clearly not interested in trying to work together

There is positive spin and lying. Not putting in place provision and then lying about it and the outcomes is lying.

I think I'm long past making an enemy out of myself - I've had no choice.

I'd be furious if about the DLA - outrageous!

StarChartEsq Wed 15-Jun-11 10:09:57

My ds' school are using the home-school book to row about whether or not his last school book was returned hmm

Schools are bonkers!

TA You WILL feel better after the tribunal. Whether you win or lose. Because you will know then that you did EVERYTHING you possibly could and did not fail your ds. I can't promise he won't still be failed but there is some pressure release on you and your responsibility for it.

appropriatelytrained Wed 15-Jun-11 12:42:57

Thanks. Have had to sit and be lied to about a whole host of issues this morning as a teary eyed Senco plays the 'it's not our fault, we're doing our best' crap.

Argues the toss about all his targets which have now, hopefully, been made more specific and measurable.

Why is it that you argue about this to get it done, against such resistance, but then everyone ends up agreeing and doing what you suggested in the first place?

Dameednabeverage Wed 15-Jun-11 16:23:41

It's crap isn't it? You just have to keep on at them to make sure they do it.I have a huge complaint ongoing with schoool at the moment as they have not done what they should but persistently state that they are supplying everything on the sm and don't know what to do next. I have had the HT in tears too but they are crocodile one's. An LSA even called ds a liar when ds wouldn't know how to lie angry
Hope things improve for you.

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