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Language Skills 5 and a half is that as good as it gets

(18 Posts)
Eveiebaby Fri 10-Jun-11 22:16:13

Really as the title suggest - what is the cut of age for speech and language skills. DD has had her receptive language skills tested as within the normal range but we do not know about expressive language. She is obviously behind with her peers in this area but does anybody know the cut of age beyond which DD may need intervention. She has just turned 5. I have done some reseach which suggested five and a half was the age as which speech and language skills would naturally resolve?

Eveiebaby Fri 10-Jun-11 22:21:06

Forgot to say that DD has a diagnosis of ASD - speech and language reports stated that she seemed significantally delayed in the area of receptive language (after just pure observation), however 18 months later after official testing she is within the normal limits of receptive language without any intervention as such hmm - unfortunately we never received any feedback about expressive language hence my question smile

TotalChaos Fri 10-Jun-11 22:29:05

5.5 seems awfully young as a cut off age, particularly taking the ASD into account, our kids can and do keep learning and improving their language after that age. Presumably she has seen SALT recently to have had her receptive language skills tested, phone up SALT and explain you would like more info about her expressive language, see if she could send you some exercises etc to do with her.

Eveiebaby Fri 10-Jun-11 22:46:13

Thanks Total - yes SALT at school did test her receptive and told me the results she also did do other tests but has now left without writing up or telling me the results sad although she has recommended text books grin. We have new salt at school but she will not go into depth other salt did (other salt only did it because I complained but she has now left without reports and I cannot do anything about that)! I had just heard that naturally 5.5 was the cut off point for really getting a good idea of where language skills were going without intervention.

Marne Fri 10-Jun-11 22:50:45

Some children with ASD dont talk until they are 6. I was told with dd2 (asd) that if she caught up with her speech by the time she was 5 then she could be diagnossed with Aspergers, if not she would be diagnossed with High functioning Autism. She's now 5.4, her speech is still 2 years behind (at least) and we still have no set in stone dx (just a dx of autism), now paed is saying that she still might (one day) get a dx of Aspergers hmm, i am confussed as i thought HFA is high functioning with speech delay, AS is high functioning with advanced speech (maybe i'm wrong but dd2's speech will always be delayed). So i'm not sure if there really is a cut off line as such, a child can continue to progress into adulthood.

working9while5 Fri 10-Jun-11 22:56:20

Definitely not a "cut off". The "upper age limit" for when a system is more or less "adult" is changing all the time, and has gone from 13 to about 20 in the last few years. The brain is more or less adult at 20 so this makes sense to me.

Clinically, I have seen significant changes in secondary-aged students - e.g. students going from 1-2 word speech to more complex sentences.

The rate of progress probably changes, but there is limited evidence.

Evieebaby, the assessments should still be in your dd's file whether or not the salt is there or not! Someone should be able to sit with you and talk you through these. If not you can kick them up the bum in a HUGE way for poor record keeping!

Eveiebaby Fri 10-Jun-11 22:59:14

Marne - we also have the broad diagnosis of ASD. So taking into account the criteria for Aspergers my DD would not fit aspergers in terms of her language development but in terms of behaviour she is very easy confused. Problems with DD are her expressive language being behind and her social skills with other children her age not being great but this is improving - It really is mind blowing isn't it but I guess time will tell?

Eveiebaby Fri 10-Jun-11 23:15:09

Thank you Working - very encouraging to hear makes sense to me too - I was definately more adult - certainly in terms of language at 20!
DD really does have adequate expressive language - she is always commenting on things and can take part in a conversation although say I might I ask a question and she will respond or she might ask a question and I will respond so rarely goes beyond a question:respond although might in a blue moon! Her sentence structure can be immature at times and she is struggling at more complex why/how questions.
She is not your typical ASD child which professionals have commented on but Paed has suggested "there is something underlying" and as he diagnosed ASD 1.5 years ago is reluctant to change.

Sadly Working the SALT assigned to DD was a locum and it seems liked she has walked without leaving any reports. sad Such a total waste of time as she spend FIVE very valuable sessions with DD testing her - I also spent a great deal of time filling in a questionairre for her.

working9while5 Fri 10-Jun-11 23:21:07

And there are no assessments in her file??? That locum needs to be reported! Where's all that gone? That is serious stuff, she could and should face disciplinary for that.

pigletmania Fri 10-Jun-11 23:32:23

I disagree, 5.5 does seem so young, we are learning all the time. I had speech and language delay as a child as part of my dyspraxia, dev delay and my expressive language has gotten better with age as I've become older tbh. I have studied for a graduate and post graduate degrees, people change, they develop. I found that once I left school my cognitive skills, language really came on. I think that at college they were so supportive and helpful, unlike school. So to have such a finite cut off is a bit hmm tbh My dd is 4.3 and has social communication and speech and lang developmental delay, while her receptive language is good, her expressive is not. But I have hope that as she gets older it will change. We are currently in the process of statementing her too. You don't definitely know what a child will be like in 3,5, 10,15 years time.

Eveiebaby Sat 11-Jun-11 19:55:15

Piglet - As you say we do not know where we will be with our children in years to come I need to be more positive I think! It helps to hear an uplifting experience such as yours - thanks

Working - no nothing in her file according to the new SALT. I will be chasing and complaining I think - thanks

pigletmania Sat 11-Jun-11 20:03:22

To have a finite cut of point at 5.5 is a hmm, it means that children after that will not change and develop which is just not true, you are not the same person as you were say 15-20 years ago, well I am not really. Does that mean that language is fixed at 5.5, then if thats the case we will all be talking like 5.5 year olds which as you know is not true, we are learning and developing all the time, there will be differences between people just as some people are academic, some not. My mum does not recall me saying much at all when at primary/middle school. She tells me that other children would talk extensively about themselves, what they have been doing at school, and they were developmentally more advanced, and me well she said it was like getting blood out of a stone.

pigletmania Sat 11-Jun-11 20:05:05

I definitely agree with a poster who said the 20 year mark, thats more realistic.

Eveiebaby Sat 11-Jun-11 20:20:59

Piglet - I think I was very much like you at primary school. I don't remember talking much at all and I cannot even remember who my friends were in infants but I think in those days there was not so much pressure on us (as children) to communicate. It was very much an era of children were to be seen not heard!
During middle school I had a lot of friends and did well academically. I have also changed as a person since then - so yes we are constantly learning and changing and I guess anything is possible.

pigletmania Sat 11-Jun-11 21:23:10

Eveie I am noticing this now with my dd aged 4, there is a lot of expectation placed on them when they are really tiny. DD has social communication (awaiting a dx for possible ASD) with speech and language developmental delay. The paedritrician said to me that 20-25 years ago she would not be in his office today. It seems as though they want them to be holding very advanced conversations at such an early age (3/4) and if your child is not doing that then there is something wrong, imo not necessarily. They are umming and ahhhing about dd as she is improving with her expressive language and interactive skills, I think that she is like me. what they call a late developer, but we have got her checked out though to rule out anything. DD is 4 but is very "babyish" for her age, how ironic as she is still only tiny.

Eveiebaby Sat 11-Jun-11 22:21:36

Your DD sounds a bit like mine and I think I was very much like my DD when I was younger if that makes any sense! When I was growing up and we had adult visitors to the house they might have just said hello to us kids or maybe not even that. These days when I take DD to anyones house or they come to mine they just keep on and on at DD talking to her and asking questions - personally I find it very annoying!!
It sounds like your DD is making good strides in her development. My DD has just turned five and I think looking back between 4-5 yrs is when she has made the most "catch up" with her expressive language (although still some way to go).

pigletmania Sun 12-Jun-11 09:23:06

Snap Evie I see dds NT friends and they are all using very expressive and complex language and thinking skills and I feel sad for dd, but she is making progress and not going back or staying the same. Someone told me that they will develop when their brain is ready to, not when we want them to and that makes perfect sense. Some will be early, some will be late like myself. I think I really came into my own when I left school at 18 and my skills developed so much in terms of cognitive, language, I grew up I think. Don't you worry Evie your dd I am sure will make lots of progress like she is doing now. I remember being at a school function at 9 years and acting up and playing up for my mum, she was so blush, I was 9 going on 4. All the other kids were well behaved.

pigletmania Sun 12-Jun-11 09:23:48

There is hope, don't worry smile

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