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Has anyone ever got anyone to apologise for anything?

(18 Posts)
appropriatelytrained Sun 05-Jun-11 11:46:33

I'm facing Tribunal. Despite this, the LA has seen fit to fail to ensure DS has his provision in place since the issue of his statement and are facing my complaint to the LGO.

The LA lie and tell the LGO provision is in place when it is not.

The LA have refused to confirm in writing for 5 months why they have chosen the evidence of the experts they pay for (yes the fund the S&LT provision) over my independent expert. Following a complaint, they have set out their reason. It demonstrates a misunderstanding of the dispute between the two 'experts'

The Education Officer lied in writing to the Tribunal about my refusing to go to mediation. When evidence to the contrary is pointed out, it is termed a 'misunderstanding'

The S&LT team come when told by the LA to 'assess progress' for Tribunal but have to be dragged kicking and screaming to school the rest of the time. They've failed to ensure the TA is adequately trained.

School know the LA is not appropriately trained and she has messed up several times over significant issues with DS

The LA constantly refuse requests for FOI on 'cost grounds' so I have to appeal this.

The S&LT team do likewise. Hence another appeal.

NHS data protection officers refuse to release information unless specific forms are completed despite there being no justification for this. Hence another appeal

My life seems like one long complaint. No one, anywhere, seems to be capable of saying SORRY or just doing their job according to the law. These individuals act with impunity, safe behind a chain of responsibility which means they will never get individually blamed.

The weirdest thing of all is that they make out like I'm being some kind of big unfair bully asking them to do their job properly. Poor little massively funded public bodies!!

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 05-Jun-11 12:22:43

No-one will say sorry. They can't. If they say sorry now, when your ds is 16 you might be able to claim educational neglegence and use their apology as proof. At 16 he can get legal aid in his own right and sue the bastards. That is why.

Now, it isn't impossible to make them do it. The LGO can make it happen, but you have to be certain that the ONLY thing you are asking the LGO to insist upon is an unreserved apology. Compensation Money confuses the issue and will be minimal if awarded in any case. You might have more luck with the NHS though.

If we can get this groupt thing up and running I would hope that we could support each other with FoI requests, so that one person doesn't have to put in a huge long list of requests - we could break it down into small parts and a few of us could do it so that no-one goes over the 'cost' iyswim. One can put in a variety of FoI requests at a time provided they are for different LAs and most of them can be done via email so not even the cost of postage.

I've said this before to you. Try hard to concentrate on the important things for your ds, NOT simply the principles. If SALT is crap, think carefully whether you'll ever be able to change it for your ds through exhausting yourself. If the answer is no, leave it and find an alternative. The things that you CAN change will make a difference to the people behind you, but it isn't your responsibility to take on the whole system alone. This is best done through joining campaign or support groups etc. Just don't wear yourself out. Your ds needs you to focus and target. It took me too long to figure this out myself.

appropriatelytrained Sun 05-Jun-11 12:32:30

Thanks Star. That is very good advice indeed. As I was writing this out, I was kind of thinking the same thing.

I suppose, sadly, I know that a good TA would make a massive difference. I know that as DS has access to one for 3 hours of his programme a week. She has done more for him than the rest of the outside resources put together. She's confident, empathic, intelligent and instinctively knows how to take things to the next step or how to leave them. Just fantastic.

But we're stuck with a crap TA which means I've got to fight for the intervention to support this.

Will Tribunal look at the training and experience of the TA they are asking to deliver all these programmes?

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 05-Jun-11 12:59:46

A tribunal WILL look at the skills of the TA, but only if you have evidence that shows that your ds needs certain skills or experience.

My ds' statement will hopefully say that ds needs a TA with 3 years experience working with children with social communication difficulties and at least a years experience of delivering SALT programmes under the supervision of a qualified SALT. Perhaps ask your fab TA what her qualifications/experience are and ask that to be put into the statement (if you are indeed appealing to tribunal you can stick it in the working document - so it doesn't matter if it isn't there yet).

You will also want to say something about the TA being experienced at keeping records and measuring progress between SALT visits. Or you might want to say that the SALT will train the TA how to keep records and measure progress between SALT visits.

You will need an independent SALT report that recommends the level of SALT direct (I would expect it to say once a week or once fortnightly as a minimum knowing your ds, but I can't say for certain - obviously).

You can also say that the class teacher will monitor the intervention delivered by the TA and plan on a daily basis the differentiated curriculum and monitor this closely.

You can also say in the statement that all staff working with your ds will used evidence based practice and follow government recommendations to set measureable targets with a focus on outcomes (they would find it tricky to ever be able to refuse to put this in your statement).

This will give you some come-back when you eventually get a half-decent statement, - although sadly you may then have to 'come back'!

appropriatelytrained Sun 05-Jun-11 13:04:05

Thanks Star that is great! The school's questionnaire they complete sets out all the relevant staff's experience. There are lots of people who seem to have been on autism courses etc but who never work with DS! I will get it from there.

appropriatelytrained Sun 05-Jun-11 13:05:21

I was going to say, as through and specific as I have tried to make the statement, I feel I have been caught out on this one.

It just shows you, if it's not in the statement you can forget it. Even if it is in the statement, it doesn't happen half the time but at least you have comeback.

moondog Sun 05-Jun-11 13:05:33

I am aware of people who have 'been on courses' for years and years and years and are still either useless or positively dangerous.

Procuring appropriate 1:1 support for your child is the most important thing of all.

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 05-Jun-11 13:10:50

where did your last post go at? confused

appropriatelytrained Sun 05-Jun-11 13:25:31

Moondog - agreed but how do you articulate this in a statement?

appropriatelytrained Sun 05-Jun-11 13:25:48

What post Star?

StarlightMcKenzie Sun 05-Jun-11 13:44:12

Oh, perhaps I just imagined it. I got the flu so might be having halucinations hmm

mariamagdalena Sun 05-Jun-11 17:13:34

You might well get a written apology from an NHS person. Particularly if it's for something wooly like upsetting you, being tactless. Or even a clear admin or clinical error eg forgetting to copy you in on a letter or act on a result.

You're less likely to get one for important stuff like working as part of a malfunctioning system, having inadequate training or missing various clues to a diagnosis. But even then, you might do providing the initial complaint lends itself to an obvious response. Think SMART target and build in a small reward grin

direlahere Sun 05-Jun-11 17:20:32

I once received a letter from a consultant apologising for advising me that my son had not had a brain insult when he had and that there was nothing wrong with his heart when there was.
She also acknowledged that had there been different management there may have been a different outcome (his muscle tissue died as a result of inaction). Bet she was disciplined for her honesty but she has my respect.

The LGO sent my LA a how to apologise leaflet when the failed to apologise as agreed by local settlement trying to get away with a general apology for any inconvenience caused!

appropriatelytrained Sun 05-Jun-11 17:45:36

I hate the "I'm sorry you feel that we are crap" attitude which is no apology at all. Just an apology that you should feel this way.

tryingtokeepintune Sun 05-Jun-11 18:55:21

I wonder how many people on this board is going down the Tribunal, LGO, ICO, etc. route.

Do you think we find this board because of the situation we are in or do we encourage each other to go down these routes?

appropriately trained - know exactly how you feel. A large chunk of my life seems to be how to get the right/appropriate provisions for my ds, how to make sure it is implemented, check that people do what they are meant to - difficult as school can say anything they like... Agree with you re the "I'm sorry you feel that we are crap" attitude which ds' school excel in.

starlight - do you think that lgo should be compensation or apology? If seeking both, how much does that complicate things?

appropriatelytrained Sun 05-Jun-11 18:59:14

How ridiculous is the world in which we leave that LAs have to be taken to an Ombudsman to say sorry......really really stupid!

Nigel1 Sun 05-Jun-11 19:32:28

If the SSEN is a specific detailed and quantified as you seem to think then the eaisest way forward is to Judicially Review the LA. Speak to IPSEA or if you are eligable talk to an education lawyer under the terms of the Legal Help Scheme while you still can. The objective is not to go the JR but to force the authroity to act. It is quicker than an LGO complaint.

direlahere Sun 05-Jun-11 19:33:03

tryingtokeepintune, I was given some funds aswell as an apology, I wasn't seeking compensation I wanted them to acknowledge they were accountable for the way things panned out and the impact on my child.

Tbh I don't think either was really achieved, they got their hands slapped maybe, but have carried on treating us badly regardless and we are back in complaint land again, it's either complain or put up with poor practice and manipulation. I am so looking forward to the next 10+ years of this....not!

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