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MMR If you didnt give vaccine becuase of autism.........

(46 Posts)
smugtandemfeeder Sat 28-May-11 07:50:19

did you change your mind once they were diagnosed?

We didnt give DS the vaccine because we personally didnt feel there was enough evidence to reassure us that there wasnt a link to Autism.

However, now he has three and almost certainly has autism, we are thinking that our reason for not giving it is now not an issue so perhaps we could give him the vaccine??

Anyone who did the same? Just trying to gather our thoughts.

Goblinchild Sat 28-May-11 07:53:18

It's a decision only you can make, but I'm turned 50 and remember the serious nature of measles epidemics from my childhood and the deaths and disabilities that were a consequence.
So you can predict what my vote would

Haecceity Sat 28-May-11 07:59:25

Mine had the single jabs because when they were due the MMR it was the height of the whole MMR = autism thing and, tbh, we simply weren't prepared to take the risk when there was an alternative way to get them vaccinated.

However, since it turned out they were both autistic anyway! when the doctor asked (years later!) if they wanted the mmr, we said ok. What was it going to do? Make them more autistic?

smugtandemfeeder Sat 28-May-11 08:07:28

That's our thinking.... think we will do it now. Just thought perhaps others had this experience. It's an interesting concept.

LemonMouse Sat 28-May-11 08:16:46

I work as a biomedical scientist and read all the research available at the time the MMR became available to my eldest. I always thought that the original study which said there was a link between autism and the MMR was flawed at best, but now the body of evidence against there being a link is so massive that I'm surprised people are even still talking about it. Shows the power of the popular media imo!

smileANDwave2000 Sat 28-May-11 08:20:03

i m same age as goblin and i had a relative who was born partially sighted and can remember people with disabilities caused by this and epedemics from my childhood but added to this at the time i felt there wasnt enough evidence to the contrary. added to this i had before the scare already had two perfectly healthy DCs already vaccinated who were well and had no problems so i had the MMR , i still think now what if but then i remember the even worse side effects if not

bochead Sat 28-May-11 08:20:52

Nope - due to strong family history of asd + dairy intolerance (gut). Why add another risk factor to an already high risk toddler? A child with a different Dad would have had it.

My lad has had measles so see even less point now. Good quality cod liver oil (for the vit A as they still prescribe in the 3rd world when a child has measles) meant he was only sick for 3 days. Not easy keeping a lively entertained child in a dimmed room for 3 weeks though!

Hospital lab diagnosed measles as it's a notifiable disease. Worth noting his nursery only sent out a note to other parents 2 months later after I wrote a written complaint to the PCT as I was worried there were babes as young as 3 months there. (Don't worry - I informed other parents myself long before then but there is a principle to these things). Told all the neighbours and kept him quarantined for 5 weeks (he hated that but again 3rd world standard practice).

Have applied to be notified when private single jab mumps becomes available as I'd much rather he was exposed to this before puberty.

TotalChaos Sat 28-May-11 08:45:12

DS had first MMR at 1, ran into problems (language delay/echolalia) at 2/3, so I didn't let him have the booster, for fear of triggering a regression. Then he got measles at 4.8. The actual measles itself was pretty trivial, but the after affects - months of gastro bugs afterwards were not. So I would strongly recommend people look into single jabs if wary of MMR.

Debs75 Sat 28-May-11 09:10:07

DS had the 1st mmr but I declined the booster. i have heard of a case where the parents let their ds have the booster and all the progress he had made after he was dx just slipped away and he was 'more' autistic then when 1st dx Hope that made sense.
I didn't want to risk that so DS, who is never ill, won't have the booster.

DD2 and 3 aren't having it either but that is more through fear then any real logic. If the medical community could see the fear that we could lose our children to autism then they would give us an alternative to the MMR.
DD2 would probably be OK but DD3 had some bad reactions to the DPaT so i am more cautious with her

Catsu Sat 28-May-11 09:31:42

I didn't give ds1 the mmr due to fear of links with autism as my brother has autism. I did give ds1 the single vaccines though.
Ds1 is now diagnosed with autism despite not having the vaccines!
I went ahead and gave ds2 the mmr and he is clearly nt at nearly 4 now so am happy with my decision!

MedusaIsHavingABadHairDay Sat 28-May-11 09:52:46

The study as now been utterly discredited.. and I think it is very worrying that the power of the media prevails over the MMR. Measles KILLS , measles can leave you blind and brain damaged and once the herd immunity is gone we are in trouble.

My son IS autistic too and yes his autism was apparent at about that time ..cos that's the age when social skills take off..or not.. but I immunised and would again.

silverfrog Sat 28-May-11 10:14:32

the case series has not been discredited. in fact, it was described, at the GMC trial, as "good science, which still stands [the conclusion]" - this was by a witness for the prosecution, and no fan of Wakefield's.

everyone has to make the best decision they can, for thier family.

the subgroup of children who are thoguht to be susceptible to mmr as a trigger is small - 7% of regressive ASD cases. but the research is still ongoing, and in fact has been replicated aroudn the world.

the studies which are touted as "disproving" the link have not ever begun to look at the lin in the first place (for the most part, they do not study the rigth group - one study which was unlucky enough to accidentally include a child with the right criteria quietly shelved the results for that child, never to be heard of again... it is like looking in a barrelfull of apples and saying "nope, no oranges in there - I don't believe they exist")

there is a lot of work goign on wrt immune issues, both in autism, and as triggers for autism. some very interesting research. ditto allergies and gut issues.

the Sunderland work is very interesting, and came about as a result of Wakefield's early work. again, this is a protocol that works for a certain subset of the autistic population.

there was a study touted as "new" a couple of years back - a couple of months after the GMC verdict, iirc, highlighting the inability to process proteins in a satisfactory manner amongst autistic people. apparently this was "ground breaking" - not at all something that Wakefield has been saying for the last 15 years hmm (funnily enough, Wakefield was not mentioned, although the research will certainly have been done off the back of his work)

bigbluebus Sat 28-May-11 11:03:01

Whilst I'm fairly certain that MMR doesn't cause autism, I'm not convinced that it doesn't have any effect of those children who are already pre- disposed to the condition. My DS was due to have the MMR jab just when all this kicked off & we asked GP for single jabs. Govt then stopped single jabs being given & there wasn't anywhere near us at the time that did them privately - so DS didn't have it. He was a difficult baby/toddler & was DX with HF ASD at age 7. Now I'm not sure what to do. Part of me says I should take him for the jab (although he has just has Tetanus, diptheria, polio booster, so not sure now is the right time for another batch) and part of me says he is a healthy child & I had measles. german measles and mumps as a child and came out unscathed.
DD had the 1st MMR jab (she is older) but didn't have the 2nd one due to her complex health needs. GP said the 2nd jab was just to pick up the small %age who didn't gain immunity from 1st jab (its easier to jab everyone twice than test who is immune after 1st one & who isn't) GP said in his opinion MMR was a massive attack on immune system which DD didn't need.
Think I may hunt out single jab option for measles.

nicevideoshameaboutthesong Sat 28-May-11 12:25:47

No, we didnt. We didnt give the vaccines for a multitude of reasons beyond autism, inc our huge family history of autoimmune diseases.

When the kids were dx with autism, it was just par for the course.

No one in this house will receive a vaccine while DH and i are still breathing, autism or not.

nicevideoshameaboutthesong Sat 28-May-11 12:28:05

"The study as now been utterly discredited.. "

no, it hasnt. full stop.

IndigoBell Sat 28-May-11 12:52:44

My DS was seriously damaged by the 3 month vaccine. He went blind and developed developmental delay which then turned into Aspergers.

So you will never convince me that any vaccines are safe and I haven't vaccinated him or the rest of my kids.

AllieZ Sat 28-May-11 14:05:17

Measles can come with complications including permanent sensory impairment. Single jabs are available so I don't see the problem really.

moosemama Sat 28-May-11 15:33:11

This is something dh and I have been discussing wrt dd just this week, after the school circulated a letter saying there is a big measels outbreak in France which has had a knock on effect with some cases in the West Midlands being connected to it.

Dd hasn't had her MMR yet and is 2.4. Both boys were done, although ds2 still hasn't had his school age booster at 7 years old . I would love to have his titres tested rather than just giving it for the sake of it, but don't have a clue how to arrange this, getting blood out of him is like getting blood out of a stone and he is needle phobic (although that includes vaccinations, which is why he didn't have the booster in the first place).

Ds1 has ASD, there are lots autoimmune disorders on both sides of the family, including dh and I, plus a family history of ASD.

I know my reaction of not getting dd vaccinated is one of fear, but at the same time I have yet to be convinced that the assault on the immune system that comes with all multiple vaccinations (not just the MMR) is never a trigger for autism.

I spent some time yesterday trying to find out what's the oldest age a child has ever regressed into autism, as I do think herd immunity is important and am frankly terrified of dd catching measels, but the thought of losing my lovely girl to autism is equally as frightening.

I suppose I'm thinking that once she is a bit older and her immune system is more developed, it should be safer to get her done.

I was thinking I probably need to get her done before she starts ft nursery at 3.8 as surely the risk of infection increases the more children she mixes with.

I still don't have a clue what to do, but am spending a lot of time thinking about it at the moment.

I will be reading this thread with interest, as I currently see and sympathise with both sides, but am all a bit bunny-in-the-headlights about it at present.

Triggles Sat 28-May-11 16:45:21

We had DS2 immunised, and I will be taking DS3 in for immunisation next week (already have the appointment). DS3 really isn't around loads of other children, except for at school run time, but DS2 is - and immunisations are not infallible. If DS2 comes down with even a mild case of measles, he will bring it into the home, so obviously that means making sure DS3 is protected as well.

If we're getting right down to guts about it - measles can be very ugly, and I don't want to put them at risk. I do think that as a society we are in jeopardy of losing that "herd immunity" level and having another epidemic.

nicevideoshameaboutthesong Sat 28-May-11 17:13:07

i believe herd immunity, as it is applied to vaccinated and non-vaccinated persons and outbreaks of disease particularly amongst the vaccinated populations, is a myth.

Triggles Sat 28-May-11 18:45:22

I don't. Each to his own, I guess.

Goblinchild Sat 28-May-11 18:56:02

I think it's a theory rather than a myth, but it's always made sense to me that the more people protected, the fewer places the disease has to exist and the harder to infect others.

Debs75 Sat 28-May-11 20:15:03

It's not just the MMR which can be harmful, The DTaP can cause problems as well, DD3's disposition changed overnight after having the 2nd one. She had been a very content, easily sleeping baby and went to very clingy and easily disturbed. Around the time I was reading about Jenny McCarthy and she has a book with different families in and their struggles and one families child developed serious brain injuries after their routine jabs and since died.
I know that case could be just 0.000001% of the population who had the jab but these things happen and just because it is safe for 99.99999& of the population doesn't mean it is totally safe

asdx2 Sat 28-May-11 20:22:11

Ds had his MMR at 15 months but it was obvious something was wrong before then. With dd the GP advised that we delay and wait and see first. Dd regressed at 13 months seemingly for no reason that I could establish. She had an ASD dx a week after her second birthday and the MMR a week later.

IndigoBell Sat 28-May-11 20:25:26

Debs - yes it was the DTap (the 2nd one) which cause my DS to go blind sad

(He did recover his sight - 8 months later)

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