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what an absolute idiot I feel right now

(22 Posts)
Madprest Fri 12-Nov-10 15:11:56

Arranged to go into school to look at my child's school records (waited 2 weeks). Headmistress was present and hardly any files there. My intentions was to look at everything then have meeting at a later date. Can't believe I got sucked into telling her what issues I have got. Yet I wanted to know what all levels at the beginning and end of the year since she started. But she only had YR 2 she is in YR 4 now. I have wrote previously on here about me only just finding out she as been having IEP's since she started and I found out all this 6 weeks ago. Voiced to HT that I have not been aware of any IEP therefore had no input. HT said she was angry and going to investigate and have meeeting after our holiday. In YR 2 she was at level 1 but levels after that was funnily enough not there. I am well aware that all files weren't there by what was on the table. I feel an idiot, frustrated and feel like banging my head against the wall. I know she is trying to cover something up and tried to convince me that my daughter is doing okay and would definitely not need assessing as she is not doing that badly. I insisted that I wanted to see all files and I have fallen for her plans of me not seeing them hook line and sinker. I could cry honestly I really could (changed nickname in case of certain people seeing it and putting 2 and 2 together)

Bigpants1 Fri 12-Nov-10 15:36:00

Hi. You absolutely are entitled to see ALL your dds files. Put in a request under the FOI Act. Youll probably have to pay a nominal sum-£10.00 or so, but it is worth it. This info, should include any e-mails/phone calls you have made, or school has made to other agencies,for eg, Educ. Psych, LA. You can also request for this info to be sent to YOUR house, so you can look at it in private and in your own time. We did this, with school and Medical Records for our ds.
Look up on the "net" for the correct wording of the FOI Request. Send the request to your LA-you dont have to ask the HT.
Until you have this info, do not if possible, engage with the HT-she is clearly trying to cover her back. Do not tell her what you are going to do with the info or who you intend to speak to.
Why was the HT angry? She is responsible for the IEPs and knows full well you should have been informed, and had regular meetings with her re them, to see if your dd was meeting targets set.
I would complain in writing re this to the LA and school SENCO if there is one. When you have the info you need, ask for a meeting with HT, SENCO and a representative from the LA to request the help your dd needs. Take someone with you for support.
You wont be popular, but you will find, if you dont shout and complain, your dds needs will get overlooked. HTH.

fedupwithdeployment Fri 12-Nov-10 15:58:24

Not sure about FOI - perhaps a Subject Access Request under Data Protection Leglisation. There is a nominal charge - of £10 and they have I think 40 days in which to comply.

madsadlibrarian Fri 12-Nov-10 16:07:35

you don't need to make an FOI request - there are special provisions for educational records - see for example ols/pupilrecords.htm

SausageMonster Fri 12-Nov-10 17:01:11

I remember your original post - I responded to you then.

Don't be mad with yourself - it's not justified.

I agree - you do not need to go to the expense of a FOI request. You can do this under DPA.

I wouldn't go back into school to look at them again.

I would just send a letter to Head sttaing that you came in to see the file today and it was obvious that it was incomplete and that you are now formally requesting a full copy of all the files held on your child and any documents that may be held seperately in SN Files to be sent to your home address.

That letter then documents the fact that information has unlawfully been withheld from you. useful at a later date.

You can also sk for a list of all documents they have provided to you.

That way, if you want to take further action in the future and more information miraculously appears, you'll be able to show that it wasn't availble to you when you asked.

Please don't think this is a criticism but you're focusing on the school files when your energy may be better spent elsewhere.

Ok - youve just discovered there is a problem and that, unbeknown to you, your DD has been identified by school as having SENs. I can feel your frustration and anger. I would be feeling the same way.

What next?

How recently has her IEP been updated? If not in the last 6 months demend an update.

Do you know the date of the next IEP review date - if not ask school in writing for the date. Tell them you wish to participate in the review and any potential amendments to the IEP. that may be required.

As the current IEP was drawn up without your input is it accurate and SMART? If not ask for an immediate review as it's not acceptable.

These are the basic steps to get her some meaningful support and also build up your case for possible Statement.

Your issues with obtaining a copy of the school file can run in parallel but are really secondary to getting the IEP right. The Annual Reports that school send home shoudl also show your DD's level of attainment (SATS levels etc).

Please don't beat yourself up. You have no cause to. I think part of it is shock at the realistaion that schools, which we naturally tend to trust, can act in such an underhand and devious manner.

Best wishes

Bigpants1 Fri 12-Nov-10 17:32:42

Apologies-meant Subject Access Request. Doh!

sugarcandymonster Fri 12-Nov-10 17:51:09

Here is some more information about the right to see educational records. The school does not have the right to withold any of the pupil's records from you.

Any request to see your child's records should be treated as a Subject Access Request even if you didn't quote the DPA. But I would write and remind them of the DPA anyway and send your letter by recorded delivery. If you have any further problems getting the information from the school, you can refer your complaint to the Information Commissioner, but you'll need the proof of delivery to show the date you sent it.

Unfortunately school records are one of the exceptions to the £10 nominal fee; schools are able to charge up to £50 for copies but it must reflect the number of pages.

Personally I recommend asking for a full set to be copied rather than selecting pages in person, even if it costs a little bit more - it allows you to have the full set to browse at home rather than feeling pressured to be selective while viewing them in school.

Madprest Fri 12-Nov-10 19:06:26

Thanks everyone and apologies for being late responding to you all as I have been shopping as we go on hols tomorrow. The things I wanted to see in particular are teachers notes to see how they decided to put these targets on IEP's and mainly her levels which I insisted that at the next meeting with HT that is what I want to see physically to see what little progress she is making. I pointed out angrily about the lack of input I have had with the IEP's as we have only recently found out about them. So HT tried to blab on about that I should have been told and had 3 meetings per year (rudely interrupted and told her I know all about it now and how it should work). HT was angry about us not knowing about it and investigating. Not bothered about all that I just want evidence that she isn't making progress and want to find out if she as a learning disability. I told her I am more angry that out of the 9 IEP's that there was only 3 evaluations filled in so how do I know she is met all targets. Shall post all targets that was On all IEP's for you to look out to see what you all think.

Madprest Fri 12-Nov-10 20:03:49

IEP 1 -Reception
To be able to count out from a collection-from 1 up to 10 objects when counting
To recognise numerals 0-10
To be able to count and match a set of objects to the correct numeral.. Evaluation-Beginning to achieve

To talk about pictures and events in stories..Evaluation-Still reluctant to discuss story

To learn the sounds of each letter of the alphabet..Evaluation-knows most sounds

IEP 2-Year 1
To count sets of objects from collection-from 1 to 10 touching each object when counting
To recognise and write numbers 1 to 10
To be able to count 1 more than a given number
To talk about pictures and events in stories
To learn all the sounds of each letter of the alphabet
To read Ginn Level 1 (No Evaluations wrote)

IEP 3-Year 1
To count to 20
To recognise and write numbers 1 to 20
To begin to combine small groups with pictorial support
To continue to talk about pictures and events in stories
To continue to learn all the sounds of the each letter of the alphabet
To continue to read Ginn Level 1 and story world (No Evaluation wrote)

IEP 4-Year 2
To be able to add two digits together to make 10-instant recall
To be able to write sentences independently(No Evaluation wrote)

IEP 5-Year 2
To be able to subtract 10 from a given number
To be able to halve an even number to 20
To be able to read and spell common words from Phase 4 (letters and sounds)-(No Evaluation wrote)

IEP 6-Year 3
To have instant recall of number bonds to 10/20
To be able to complete simple addition/subtraction using a number line
To be able to read and spell common words from Phase 4 (letters and sounds)
To complete phonic work with TA-(No Evaluation wrote)

IEP 7-Year 3
To have instant recall of number bonds to 10/20
To confidently complete simple addition/subtraction sentences using a number line
To be able to read and spell common words from Phase 4 (letters and sounds)
To complete phonic work (lexia program)
Evaluations-DD has shown improvement with her writing and number skills, however I feel that all the targets should continue as she still to build on her confidence
I still feel (if possible) DD would benefit from continuing with the extra phonics session in year 4. I do feel that if this does not happen,both DD's confidence and ability will fall behind

IEP 8-Year 3
To have instant recall of number bonds to 10/20
To confidently complete simple addition/subtraction sentences using a number line
To be able to read and spell common words from phase 4 (letters and sounds)
To complete extra phonic work (including lexia) with support if possible-(No Evaluation wrote)

IEP 9-Year 4
To confidently complete simple Addition/subtraction sentences using a number
To be able to read and spell common words from phase 4 (letters and sounds) and write these correctly in independent work
To read daily at home and at school and discuss texts to show an understanding of the story (No Evaluation wrote)

that is all info on IEPs I would appreciate it if you tell me what you think. I personally know something is not right and this will be reflected when I receive her levels. Does anybody know what level she should be when going into year 4..thanks all

SausageMonster Fri 12-Nov-10 20:50:06

Hi Madprest

Have you actually tried out your DD's knowledge against each of the targets abaove?

Try it. That way you can tell if the targets have been met - much better than the opinion of a teacher who cannot even be bothered to regularly review her pupil's IEP.

That will tell you whether she is improving year on year.

Then you'd have to test her current level of ability against what is normal for her age.

That will tell you whether she's behing her peers. You can google to find out what stage she shoud be at.

then you can ask for a SMART IEP to be drawn up with your input.

Or, her delay be be so bad that a Statement should be considered.

I know you're angry. I expect the Head is quite concerned as this is a very blatent failure to support SENs and she'll know that. Ofsted don't like that sort of thing.

Every school has to have a SEN Governor - one that takes a special interest in SEN support. That's who to complain to if you're happy with the Head's response. Alternatively you can complain directly to the LA. they'd be concerned as they are vicariously liable in the event of you bring a claim for educational negligence.

But the main thing is to get the right support in place as soon as possible.

One last piece of advice - keep a day by day diary of who you spoke to, what was said etc. It will be a very valuable document should you need to take matters further.

Best wishes

Madprest Fri 12-Nov-10 21:21:32

Thank you so much I will certainly do that

SausageMonster Fri 12-Nov-10 21:28:39

I forgot to add that you should ask whether she's on School Action or School Action Plus.

Have a good holiday.

Madprest Fri 12-Nov-10 21:28:57

I will be requesting files by letter as advised as I agree it gives me more time to go through them and Ht did come across that she didn't want me to look at them and tbh it didn't look like there was much there.

SE13Mummy Fri 12-Nov-10 23:25:28

As a teacher I would say that the targets upto and including IEP 5 are fairly standard (as in, year group appropriate) objectives for the year group your DD was in at the time of the IEP.

I'd be most concerned with the 'read/spell phase 4 letters and sounds words' target having been included repeatedly, thus implying no/little progress and also no help being indicated. Same with her numberline target really.

It may be that she is receiving some additional support in class, perhaps a TA-supported group for phonics/numeracy but that should be detailed on an IEP. It may also be the case that numberlines just don't make sense to her - she wouldn't be the only child for whom they are a confusion rather than a help. This week (in my Y4 class) I've abandoned numberlines for my least confident mathematicians and taught them how to do column addition; sometimes there comes a point when it's worth showing a child how to perform a calculation successfully and work on the understanding of the process later. That's my take on it anyway.

Oh, and FWIW approximately half of my Y4 class can't add two digits together to make 10-instant recall and only two of them have specific/identified learning difficulties!

mariagoretti Fri 12-Nov-10 23:44:28

It looks like even the last set of targets are roughly set at a year 1 level. They do seem to follow on logically, but seem rather narrow: sums and sounding-out and not much else. That's fair enough if her understanding, talking, social skills, art etc are all fine. Are they?

Lexia sounds like a reading catchup programme. Extra phonics tuition seems sensible, but did it make any difference? There's no mention of any extra resources for the numeracy difficulties.

Agree that you need to test her yourself, rather than trust the school's assessments, to find what level she's working at. I wouldn't be too surprised if the teachers' notes you were hoping to see never got written. 30 kids in a class / 5 hours of lessons = 10 min per child per day for absolutely everything.

I think you're right to be hopping mad... if her progress really has been this slow, you should have been told way earlier, and the school should be working with you to find out the cause so they can best address it.

Madprest Sat 13-Nov-10 00:58:09

I totally agree with you maria.. she as now just moved up a level in lexia and she ept saying how she as never moved up and she noticed others had. Sausage she is on SA. SE13 I agree about the read/spell as well. When i showed her the way I was taught (column) she got it and I wrote in her book that she found it easier.And it does concern me that read/spell is repeated and that is where I know are her weaknesses. No resources for numeracy what so ever.And Mariagoretti I agree progress is slow but the jargon I got from HT was her daughter was like my DD and she is now a teacher...all children catch up eventually (full of shite out of her gob and nothing I really wanted to know). What makes me suspicious is that she only showed me her levels in year 2...that's it. I asked about her levels in year 3 and was told it was held internally (crock of shit). She was determined I wouldn't look at her files (what I observed there was really nothing there to look at. Files are going to be requested and until I have the full knowledge under my belt there is going to be no meetings because HT is fobbing me off and as far as I'm concerned she is being failed.

IndigoBell Sat 13-Nov-10 08:32:09

As for where she should be know. Govt expects all pupils to be about a 3A at begining of Year 4. However about 20% won't have made that grade.....

Govt expects all children to be a 2B at end of Y2.

Is there any reason why you can't move school?

You don't need these IEPs to prove she hasn't made progress. If she is not working at a 2 / 3 - then by definition she hasn't made enough progress.

The question is not her school records, or even if her IEPs have been any good or not. The only relevant question now is what needs to be done, starting today, for her to catch up.

popsycal Sat 13-Nov-10 08:44:53

At the end of Y4, the government do not expect all pupils to be 3a....

popsycal Sat 13-Nov-10 08:45:42

Gosh you said beginning.
That is certainly untrue, Indigobell. I can provide references for you should you need me to verify

IndigoBell Sat 13-Nov-10 08:49:08

Sorry blush I meant 3C not 3A.

IndigoBell Sat 13-Nov-10 08:50:18

End of Y2 - 2b
End of Y6 - 4b

Which implies
End of Y4 - 3b

Which implies
Begining of Y4 2a / 3c

popsycal Sat 13-Nov-10 08:53:58

That's more like it
Apologies if I sounded abrupt-posting whilst trying to ignoreworld war 3 in the next room

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