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The P word - blardy provision

(26 Posts)
bubbles22 Fri 12-Nov-10 12:31:13

Grrr, what a week.

Some of you may know that I have name changed and why so I won't repeat all the history.

DS is awaiting a statementing decision. School are offering no provision. They are sympathetic and helpful but are quite clear that he 'looks ok' to them and that they have other pressing needs - e.g. kids who can't read or write.

I have suspected that this was the case for the last two years but it was at least articulated to me by the head today.

I saw an open lesson with DS this week and he was all over the place - lying on the floor at circle time, chewing his laces, not listening. It was difficult for the teacher to manage in front of parents, but it was clear that there is no 'system' in place to do this.

Of course, school say they have never seen him be like this before. But he has hypermobility and sensory problems and it is quite from all the reports that this is how he is. It's not just us, it's constitutional to him. He might not be that bad all the time, but there is no way he is not like that some of the time.

He also lashed out at a friend on the same day and scratched him.

To me, knowing him, and having read all the reports, it is clearly a case of him getting more stressed and having no support to 'manage' problems.

I have told school that I am happy to pick him up early or let him do half days and they are ok with that but the head still says 'but we couldn't call you to pick him up as we think he looks ok all the time, we just don't see it'

Oh and 'lots of boys get in to scraps at this age'.

I have tried to explain that this maybe put he has AS and it's not likely to change without help.

What can you do when all the reports say you need to put x,y and z and school say 'let's see if he gets a statement'

Triggles Fri 12-Nov-10 12:44:21

Wouldn't the fact that it has reached a point that a statement has been requested spell out that he has needs that aren't being met? confused Surely the school has to acknowledge that.

bubbles22 Fri 12-Nov-10 12:56:57

You would think wouldn't you??? I think it is partly mixed up with the idea that the school don't know what to do; they don't know what the problem is, they don't know how to set targets or measure progress.

And he looks alright.

If they were to do what is in the reports, it would be beyond their resources, so instead, they do nothing.

And nothing happens to them - at the moment.

He doesn't throw chairs or disrupt lessons.

Only himslef.

Willmum Fri 12-Nov-10 18:29:51

Can't offer much advice only wanted to say we are in the same boat, only my son is in pre-school. I understand that as he is only there 2.5 hours a day and as its a free play environment (albeit in a structured way), they are not seeing it the same way that I do.
What I can't understand is how they can read reports from salt, ed pysc, OT and still say there isn't a problem. They're not even trying to follow the recommendations being made. We are also waiting for a descsion on a statement. Apparently our headteacher knows more about, speech disorders, sensory integration disorder and dcd than all the professionals involved with him. She must me so clever!
Not at all bitter!

lordbingham Fri 12-Nov-10 22:50:02

Have name changed.

I know willmum. They will use any excuse but I think the reality is they can get away without applying any provision because the child doesn't engage in difficult or disruptive behaviour.

Stick him in the corner and let him chew his shoes.

I'm sure DS is not usually that bad, but the fact is he is floppy and we have NHS medical reports which say he can't keep his body upright. You can't say 'this never happens' because it does. You can say 'he's not usually this bad'. But when you say 'it never happens', I just don't believe it and that will make me think that it does.

IndigoBell Sat 13-Nov-10 08:35:07

Well, if they wait long enough - he will start to throw chairs and hit kids grin

(That's what happened to my DS (in Year 4) - then all of a sudden he was top of their list to see every proffessional under the bleeding sun)

LaydeeC Sat 13-Nov-10 10:51:27

same story with us.
oh for a penny every time school said
- he looks ok to us
- it's you mum
- but he's very clever

and a penny for every time they made me feel like the shiteist mum on the planet. I despise them.

The difficulty in our school was the superior attitude that one of our SENCos took - she was the SENCo don't you know, and without any real experience of ASDs/AS, she just 'knew' better than us and the other professionals (CAMHS) that were involved with my son. The other SENCo talked a good game but never delivered.

We were lucky that CAMHS were so supportive (they drove the AS diagnosis) and willing to attend meetings with us at school. My son eventually left in Year 5 with a statement naming specialist provision. Funny that his school said he would never get a statement...

It was the worst time of our lives and my family was on its knees from the sheer stress of it all. We got through it though. You have to keep writing, pestering, knocking on doors, making yourself unpopular and most importantly challenging their decisions and experience. They do not know everything and they are very unwilling to accept that they do not have the skill sets / knowledge to deliver.

The final straw for me was when the SENCo asked four other parents to carry my son into school as he was having a meltdown and kicking and punching me. The utter humiliation of it (from his perspective) still haunts me. Bastards.

ovenreadychicken Sun 14-Nov-10 13:43:36

It's true that passive children with AS often get overlooked while those who are more disruptive can't avoid getting attention. But it doesn't mean that those who throw chairs and cause disruption will automatically end up with the right provision.

In fact, many children with AS with behavioural problems end up getting misdiagnosed and their behaviour blamed on parenting or home issues. They're often categorised as BESD and most continue in mainstream but without appropriate support, or some are sent to specialist BESD schools which often have no idea how to manage behavioural problems associated with AS.

Throwing chairs is by no means a magic ticket to provision. All children with AS have problems securing the right provision - it's just that the problems are very different according to how the AS presents in the individual.

IndigoBell Sun 14-Nov-10 18:51:13

Very true - when DS started throwing chairs, he didn't get the right provision. He got weekly sessions with the behaviour support team - who made things worse.

He got the right provision when we moved school. His provision now is absolutely fantastic - and he's starting to do well at school.

dammitjannette Sun 14-Nov-10 19:28:24

Good point. It is the school which is key I think. If the school really wants to help the child, they will try and understand the child and the way the child functions. They will then see what we see as parents.

However, there are not many schools, with scant resources and their eye on the league tables, who have the time or inclination to invest such time in one child who is not causing any bother to them. Their view is: Why should they if the child is doing ok academically? Why go looking for problems?

The point is, however passive the child, eventually these problems come looking for you and it will not end well! Best manage it and offer appropriate support at the earliest opportunity.

Trying to get the right provision is a problem all parents share, whether their child is compliant or not. However, trying to convince people your child needs any provision at all is much more difficult if your child is not disruptive.

want2sleep Sun 14-Nov-10 20:15:48

Your ds has some problems same as my ds in carpet time etc I don't just think your ds needs a statement but a different school....they are lying that their are never any not sympathetic in my eyes at all! They are denying your ds the support needed.

This happening in ds school also but ds has 1:1 full support, which shows even with statement in place if 'environment' not right it is hard for a dc.

I'm going back to tribunal over 'environment' I would write a parent observation report while it is fresh in your mind as you may need the evidence.

I would be looking for a school to go in Part 4 of that statement

dammitjannette Sun 14-Nov-10 20:29:23

Have namechanged from original post.

I know what you mean. He needs a small, caring school. But actually, that is a problem in itself. Where do you find one?

I know most of the schools in this small county town - very churchy and very academic. The school we are at is actually the one considered 'progressive' by most (including the LA).

I think the whole thing is a very sore subject with the cointrolling head as her staff clearly dropped the ball on this one. I was told last year by a stupid teacher that DS was 'miles away from SA+' and here we are talking about statements and part-time schooling.

They have made everything more difficult.

want2sleep Sun 14-Nov-10 21:26:40

I'm fighting for ind ms as we could be from the same place by the sounds of it with it's very churchy schools grin

IndigoBell Sun 14-Nov-10 21:29:41

I strongly disagree that you need a small school. Our terrible school was a 1 form entry and our brilliant school is a 3 form entry. In fact there are a lot of advantages to a larger school.

It is all down to the HT and the staff she employs.

dondeestainiesta Sun 14-Nov-10 22:30:36

Our independent EP said DS would need a small school. I suppose class size might be the key thing. DS was ast another school before this which was a three form entry and the playground was chaos for him.

I suppose it depends on the child and what their specific problems are.

want2sleep Sun 14-Nov-10 22:32:06

it also depends on dc not coping with sensory environment also IB and I recognise the sensory probs my ds and OP ds have. But like you say IB the HT is important in this and HT is not to good at this school either! So a move of school either way...

IndigoBell Mon 15-Nov-10 07:22:51

The playground will still be chaos in a small school. You will still have too many kids crammed into a very small area - it's just that the rang of ages will be greater.

At our 3 form entry the upper juniors have their own playground. Whereas at the smaller school there was only one playground for all the juniors. When you're in year 3 it makes a big diff whether year 6s are in your playground or not.

Nor will a smaller school have smaller classes. All state schools are funded at approx 1 teacher to 30 kids. If the school is smaller than that they just end up with mixed age classes.

My son does have huge problems with noise. The new school recognize this and keep his class of 29 kids quiet. If they want to do something noisy they either withdraw him to do something else with a TA or the TA takes the noisy group out.

Despite having 360 kids at his school they scheduled the fire drill to happen on a day when they knew DS would be away. Because they know how much distress fire alarms cause him.

So a larger school really really can cope with ASD kids.

They also employ more TAs which allows them to run more interventions. They can also split DS up from the children he really can't get on with. Which a small school can never do.

purplepidjin Mon 15-Nov-10 07:36:14

If you feel it necessary, drop an A-bomb on them!

Denying access to medical provision - which could include SALT recommendations, OT etc - could be called abuse. If you want to kick their backsides good and proper lol

bubbles22 Mon 15-Nov-10 09:32:13

Indigo - I think it's probably not small school/big school but good school isn't it?

I have had tears all morning from DS who was a horror to get into school. He has been so tired all weekend and out of sorts. He looks so miserable.

I went into school and explained that he was tired and that he was upset by the cold and his teacher was a bit off hand.

Everything is ok when I'm causing problems for anyone but when I start asking about provision, it all gets nasty.

I'm getting sick of it. I've been sat here in tears this morning and it needs to stop.

I'm going to ask our community paed to back a request for flexi-schooling at least as a temporary measure.

purplepidjin - you are right. They are denying him access to medical provision. They also do not see that what is wrong with him has been clinically diagnosed - he has Ehlers-Danlos, he has Aspergers. I am not asking them to diagnose or for their opnion on what he needs. It is very clear from the reports.

IndigoBell Mon 15-Nov-10 09:57:09

Have you asked about Flexi-schooling? They might agree without any 'back up'. Once they agree it can start the next day....

Why don't you pick him up at lunchtime today.... (Unless the unexpectedness of it would be a bad idea)

Unfortunately you won't know if a school is going to be any good or not until you've sent him there....

bubbles22 Mon 15-Nov-10 10:07:51

Thanks. I think that is a good idea. I am going to see if the doctor rings me back as I have asked for her thoughts on it and I wouldn't want to just go ahead and do it without listening to her. She is very much onside.

I could, however, flag it up to the head I suppose.

bubbles22 Mon 15-Nov-10 10:49:11

OK head says we need to discuss with EWO??

IndigoBell Mon 15-Nov-10 11:12:29

You don't need to contact EWO.

Sounds like school doesn't know what flext schooling is. My school aranged flexi schooling for me within one day. Without any problems or evidence or anything. Just because we both felt half days were the right thing to do.

Ring parent partnership. Hopefully they'll be able to tell you how to make it happen.

bubbles22 Mon 15-Nov-10 12:11:55

Thanks. Just told the head that but I think she is a bit lost about it. She is going to speak to EWO and find out best way to 'do it properly' but it is looking hopeful!

IndigoBell Mon 15-Nov-10 12:16:27

Fingers crossed. Keep us posted.


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