So confussed about dd2 and school.

[Marne]

Dd2 (ASD) Started school in september, seemed to be doing well on half days, was happy and TA was great (great communication with me). Now she stays for lunch (until 1pm) and it seems to be going down hill, her TA only stays until 12am and barely writes anything in her home school book, dd2 crys at lunch time as she cant cope with the noise in the hall (dd1 tells me), she's not eating (but will eat her lunch in the car when i pick her up), she's soiling and wetting herself when she gets home (up until now she has been doing well with this).

What do i do?

I'm going to go and speek to the SENCO or head tomorrow but i don't know what i'm going to say.

Should i ask them to sit her somewhere else for lunch? but this would reqire a 1:1 TA to be with her which they wont agree to. Do i bring her home at 12? but surely she will have to stay at some point.

I'm so confussed .

[Lougle]

Oh bless her, Marne.

What does her statement say?

[IndigoBell]

Very sorry to hear things are going downhill.

Definitely get her to sit somewhere quieter for her lunch. Hall is bound to be too noisy or too smelly for her.

It's not your problem about finding a TA - it's the schools.

[Ineed2]

Dd3 couldn't cope with the dining room at school either, actually school were really helpful and put her on a table in the foyer with a couple of other children, they gradually moved the table until it was in the doorway and eventually Dd3 was enticed into the hall. She is still not v.happy in there and sometimes needs to put her fingers in her ears, but she can cope with it. She in year 3 now but has been Ok about it since around halfway through year 1.

I did find out that the dinner ladies use a whistle to quieten the chldren which I thought was disgraceful. I asked if this could be stopped and was told it had been, Dd3 tells me otherwise!!!

School halls are awful places for someone with super senses, it could take sometime to settle your Dd.

Sorry probably not what you want to hear

[bigTillyMint]

Oh no, why can't schools understand that a school dining hall is hell on legs for a child with ASD?

The school needs to make a special plan for your DD and any other children who can't cope, in a quiet area. And they shouldn't expect them to move into the dining room, unless they want to themselves, of course.

[ShadeofViolet]

I hope you manage to sort it out tomorrow :(

[LucindaCarlisle]

Personally I would collect her as soon as the TA leaves. If you allow her to stay for Lunch it may make a permanent impression on her brain that she hates school. best course is to prevent any worse damage by taking her away from the unpleasant experiences now.

[Lougle]

LucindaCarlisle what a crock of rubbish! Where do you get this stuff from?

The problem isn't staying for lunch. The problem is that Marne's DD needs support at lunch, and isn't getting it.

Removing a child with SN from school is not a good option, because it allows the school to opt out of finding a suitable solution to the problem.

If Marne's DD was at the very end of her school year, struggling with a lack of routine, then maybe. But this is the start of the school year. It will only continue. Marne needs to push the school to find a solution, or the LA needs to find a place at the special school Marne asked for, simple.

That is why I asked what the statement says, because that will tell Marne what the solution is (ie. enforce statement, get statement ammended, or whatever).

[LucindaCarlisle]

You are wrong on this issue Lougle.

[Lougle]

Yeah, ok, LucindaCarlisle. Whatever you say.

[LucindaCarlisle]

Removing a child from school IS a GOOD option.

[Lougle]

Not in Year R, when they have only been there 8 weeks, and need considerable support. Marne's preference was for special school, the special school was full, the school and LA promised Marne that this school would work for her DD. Now they need to make it work. It is not a solution to withdraw her from school.

[Marne]

I will have to dig her statement out, i think her statement only covers extra support (TA) for 3 hours (so until 12am) until she is full time (jan), her TA is only employed until 12am, i'm not sure if she will extend her hours when dd2 is full time (not sure if its the TA's choise or the school).

When dd2 started the school told me they had applied for extra funding to cover a TA and that this would cover lunch times and play times.

I will get her statement out and check what is on there, i have a meeting with school next week to reveiw her statement.

I think i am going to have to say tomorrow that dd2 needs a 1:1 for luch, needs to be removed from the hall or she will have to come home at 12am (i don't really want to take her out at 12 as she should be getting her needs met until 1am).

Dd1 sits near her at lunch and tells me how dd2 gets on, acording to dd1, dd2 is getting worse each day and crys as soon as she gets in the hall, she covers her ears, chews her food and spits it out (which she does more when she's upset) and today didn't eat most of her lunch (which is unlike dd2 as she loves food).

[LucindaCarlisle]

She just needs to be withdrawn from LUNCH at school.

If the child continues to stay for school Lunch it will make the child HATE to go to school.. Sometimes it is best to make a tactical withdrawal.

Lougle, I wish you would count to ten before giving bad advice.

[Marne]

And thanks Loungle, you are so right, i don't want to remove her unless its to place her in the SN school, they need to meet her needs or give her a place at the sn school.

[Lougle]

Marne, I am ignoring unhelpful posters.

How is your DD in your presence? Does it make her better or worse?

I wonder if you could ask to go in and discreetly observe for yourself, and then work out what is going on.

The trouble is that there are so many variables, aren't there? Do you think your DD would cope with the hall if she had support from a 1:1? Or is the hall a complete write off?

You know as well as I do that you need a long term solution here, not a knee jerk reaction, because your DD needs the right solution for her needs. Pulling her out will just delay the inevitable wrangle with the school, and also, the LA will see that they have no need to sort anything out. You will have removed their 'problem'.

[LucindaCarlisle]

REMOVE her FOR LUNCH only.

[Lougle]

That is NOT a solution, LucindaCarlisle. For 5 days per week, 38 weeks per year, 190 days per year, for the next 14 years, Marne's DD will have to cope with a lunch period. It is the school's responsibility to make reasonable adaptation for Marne's DD in accordance with the DDA.

Additionally, Marne's DD has ASD, which means that establishing a routine that she can rely on will be paramount. It will not help her to have a system now where she steps back and has to reintroduce lunch later. Lunch is not the problem. Lack of support is.

[LucindaCarlisle]

You are SO wrong.

[Marne]

At first i thought like you Lucinda, my first thought was to take dd2 out at 12am which ment dd2 would be happy. But after thinking about it (and calming down) i think she should have her needs met and stay for lunch, as from jan she will be staying full time, i can't be taking her out at 12am forever, if i start taking her out at 12am it will upset her as she is now in the routine of staying. Why should her education suffer because she cant cope with lunch?

I just hope i can get my point across tomorrow (i'm useless at doing things like this) .

[anotherbrickinthewall]

agree with Lougle. schools shouldn't be cherry picking inclusion, to skirt over the difficult bits like lunchtime. obv not a permanent solution, but might it help if she had ear defenders if it's noise that's troubling her? tho of course it could be other factors, like noise/crowds. good luck with tomorrow.

[purplepidjin]

Good luck tomorrow, Marne.

Lunchtime is not only about the food, it is also a social time where she has the opportunity to develop friendships. IME, it can be a very difficult time for childrend with ASD, but it is also very important for making friends and learning to play.

Marne, does your DD1 know how she copes in the playground? She sounds like a very caring big sister :) If she is struggling there too, this could help make your case stronger.

It might help if you write down what you want to say, then read it out. I do that when I go to the doc because I forget stuff!

Also, would it be possible for the dinner ladies to set up a table in a corner, possibly facing a wall, to cut down on the distractions for DD2? DD1 may be willing to sit with her, or another child or two that she gets on with from her class? Save this suggestion til last, if you decide it might work, so that you can look like you're willing to compromise

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Marne,

Feel for you both.

Can they not find a quieter area for DD to sit and eat her lunch in?. She is overwhelmed by the noise and is becoming distressed as a result.

Indeed lunch per se is not the problem, the lack of support at lunchtime is the crux of the matter here.

Do not bring her home for lunch unless there is absolutely no other choice, i.e your hand is forced (like mine was). I had to bring DS home for lunch in Reception as he could not cope with the dinner hall noise but he was reintroduced gradually back into lunchtimes at school over a period of some weeks. It was successful and I was in a position to be around at lunchtime. However, there was no statement in place at the time for DS but if there had been I would have told them to sort it out for him asap!!.

[Tiggles]

My DS (AS) eats his lunch on a picnic table outside (unless it is really wet).

[Marne]

purple- dd1 says that she does not play with dd2 at lunch time as dd1 is with her TA, i thought that the TA would be shadowing dd2 not glued to her. Dd1 also struggles at playtime (often plays alone) and i don't think she takes much notice of dd2 (at home they play together a lot).

Dd2 does have ear defenders, dh doesn't want her to wear them as he thinks she will stand out more (she's standing out more at the moment because she's crying). I'm not sure if its just the noise or if its a number of things, she hates sitting still, hates crouds and hates too much noise.

The school have already removed her from assebely (after a fight from me and dd's potage worker).

[purplepidjin]

Then it sounds like you have a very strong argument for lunchtime support. DD2 is distressed in the canteen and not socialising appropriately. It seems odd to me that they appear to be doing nothing to alleviate the distress of an obviously upset child Having been a TA, and done lunch and playground duty, I would want to know what I could do to help the child. Maybe it's just me, though. I would always try to help a child find someone to play with, to the point of asking a group if a certain child may join in their game if the child was too shy; or suggesting new games to groups who couldn't agree.