What is reasonable to expect from SENCO?

[Aranea]

DD1 is in reception. She has been being assessed by an OT as she has problems with gross motor skills and co-ordination.

He initially saw her before she started school in September, and gave me a sheet of exercises to pass on to the school. He then was off sick for months, so I had no contact for a while. I met the SENCO and ensured that she had copies of everything. She said she would put dd1 on the special educational needs register, and that an IEP would be put in place.

The teacher told me that they needed input from the OT to set the IEP goals, so could do nothing until he proceeded further with his assessment. He reappeared in time to visit her at the school before Christmas. He also asked the school to fill in a sensory profile questionnaire at that point. He then went off sick again.

He has just reappeared, but has handed in his notice. He visited the school again and I have just discussed his findings with him.

He was astonished that the school had not been taking dd1 out of the classroom for 15 mins a day to do some of the exercises on his sheet. He now tells me that the school ought to be doing this, and to be ensuring that dd1 gets some small-group help with handwriting.

Since he will be leaving his job shortly after the easter break, I am keen to meet with the teacher and SENCO as soon as possible so that we will be able to refer back to him if necessary. The SENCO does not seem to think it will be possible to meet this week or necessarily possible to meet in the first week of term before the OT leaves his job.

The OT seems shocked by this. I don't know whether it is reasonable to expect to get a meeting so quickly. I also don't know therefore whether his expectations of the support the school should provide are realistic. Will they really be able to give dd1 15 mins of daily physical one-to-one time, plus small-group handwriting support?

As an aside, the OT has also recommended that the SENCO should refer dd1 to an educational psychologist as he has concerns about her socialising. I don't know how quickly this will happen, given that the SENCO seems to be so busy. And presumably there are very long waiting lists, even once the referral is made. So I am left hanging wondering what possible problems there might be (he said he thought not autism but wouldn't say any more than that).

If anyone has an experience/knowledge/words of wisdom/valium to share, it would be appreciated.

[tabbycat7]

I used to be a SENCO in a primary school and I find it hard to believe that he/she is unable to see you. In your situation I would ask to see the headteacher as clearly this needs to be sorted out before the OT leaves.

The IEP is the teacher's responsibility, and as the OT had given them some exercises to do with your DD, that should have been enough to start her of on an IEP. They are usually three targets, but more or less might be appropriate depending the needs of the child.

As for seeing an EP, it might be different in other areas, but in Norfolk, schools are entitled to a certain amount of time each term from the School Support Team which consists of EPs and other specalist teachers. At the beginning of each term the SENCO will meet with the School Support Team and decide on the work for the term, which will include seeing children who need to be assessed, so ideally if this was to happen, the conversation should take place at the beginning of next term and your DD should be seen some time after that but before the summer holidays. Unfortunately, these folks are extremely busy and depending on the size of the school and the number of children needing to be seen, it is possible that she would not be seen this term, but should be made a priority for the term after.

It might be time to stamp your feet a bit. I have experienced children taking priority over others because their parents have gone into the school and made a fuss (not when I was SENCO I hasten to add!. If the SENCO won't see you, I'd try the head and maybe take a list of things you want to say.

Good luck

[Aranea]

Thank you tabbycat. I will try to insist that we meet before the OT disappears.

Do you think the OT's expectations about the level of support dd1 should be getting are realistic?

It is a v big school so I fear there will be considerable delay in seeing an EP.

[tabbycat7]

What the OT has suggested does not sound unreasonable. Schools are required to set aside part of their budget for Special Needs and teaching assistants are often paid for out of this. I would imagine that as your DD is still so little that the right amount of support will make all the difference. Do you know how many TAs there are in your daughter's class? Schools often put extra bodies in Reception. Even if your DD had to mis assembly a couple of times a week it should still be possible. As for the handwriting, the children usually sit in groups anyway and all it would need was for somebody to sit with her. At the end of the day, this is what the OT has said that she needs and schools have an obligation to meet the needs of all the children as far as possible. All of this ought to appear on the IEP as measurable targets!

[Aranea]

There is one TA in the class, which is what is making me wonder how they would manage it. Presumably they need to keep the TA in the classroom?

[tabbycat7]

It depends a it on the size of the class and on the children, but there are probably times in the day when the teacher has them all (eg reading them a story) or when the children are occupied in playing kind of activity. If this is what your daughter needs, it is up to the school to provide it.

[coppertop]

I would have expected the IEP to be put in place by the end of the first half-term. That time-scale would be enough for the teacher to see for themselves which areas your dd was having difficulties with in a classroom environment, whether OT-related or something else. At our school the SENCO and teacher (and probably the parents) would meet to discuss which issues should be made a priority.

Thinking back to when my eldest ds was in Reception, at that stage it would have been a case of exercises and activities to help with fine motor skills rather than specifically about handwriting. I think ds1 did something like 5 or 10 minutes each day with the TA. It was easier in the Reception class environment too because they already had a lot of equipment designed for that purpose, eg playdough, threading activities etc.

Another thing to consider is that if it's a very big school, the chances are that there will be other children needing similar help with motor skills and co-ordination. My ds has help with gross motor skills as part of a group rather than individually. It's worth asking if these groups exist at your skill.

The same could apply to social skills. This tends to be done in groups at our school - either witin lesson time or set up as lunchtime clubs. Even if your dd has to wait to see an Ed Psych I would've thought that the class teacher would be able to flag any particular areas of difficulty.

I wouldn't be happy with the SENCO's lack of input so far at your dd's school.

[Aranea]

I have now got a meeting arranged with the teacher & SENCO. It's after the holiday, and is 3 days before the OT leaves his job, so I suppose is just about in time.

I gather that it is the SENCO's role to refer to the EP, which makes me wonder why she didn't do this earlier. She seems very nice. The teacher is very nice too, and is newly qualified so I think relying on the SENCO to tell her what she needs to do.

I feel slightly panicky if you think the SENCO is doing surprisingly little. Presumably this will become quite significant. I feel that so much time has gone by, waiting for the OT's assessment, and it is upsetting to think that the SENCO could and should have done something.

Perhaps the reason is that dd1's problems are not significant enough to warrant her urgent attention?

[Dolfin]

Hi
Glad you managed to get a meeting with the SENCO head and OT. Some SENCO's are better than others. We have met some that seem clueless and others who seem to completely understand our childs needs and ensure appropriate support.

It is worth requesting a copy of the SEN Toolkit - government document, available free with free p&p. It is easy to read, and clearly sets out the SEN Code of Practice - also has a section about IEP's. Schools have to pay regard to this document.

If your OT is leaving, he will have to transfer his caseload to another OT (either on a permanent or temp basis) ask who will be responsible for ensuring your child care is maintained and keep in contact with the OT's to make sure your child doesnt slip through the net again.

The SENCO can ask for an EP assessment if this is delayed you can contact the LEA Ed Psych directly and ask for an EP assessment, mentioning that your child has problems with gross motor skills and co-ordination, and that the OT has recommended a referral for social skills.

Both of my children have difficulties with writing, they are also dyslexic and have some problems with maths. I know your child is only very young, but it will be worth monitoring how is she managing with letter recognition and number sequencing.

Good luck

[glinda]

Just a thought, but I don't think that Stamping feet is the best approach. In my experience the best results come when school and parents work together. The OT has set exercises for your dd but these could be done with you at home just as well as with a TA at school. If you take on the exercises that might release TA time for extra handwriting.

Hope that it works out well

[cory]

Know all about this. Still trying to get the SENCO to organise the support suggested by the OT in July 2009; have been trying since January to get to speak to same SENCO; finally got a meeting tomorrow. Apparently, the school's attitude is that since ds isn't doing worse than some of the other children he doesn't need all these things. Never mind that he is in pain.

Stamping feet isn't always the best way, never the best way to start- but sometimes you do have to resort to it. >remembers with pleasure the time she threatened to sue dd's school under the Disability Discrimination Act>

[Aranea]

Thank you everybody. My impression of the SENCO is that she is very knowledgeable and thoughtful, so I think rather than stamping feet at this stage I will just be honest about my anxiety about time going by.

It is true that we can do some of the exercises at home, and I am ensuring that dd does swimming and ballet regularly which seem like an easier way to get her to do the kind of thing the OT is recommending. But actually dd is so tired by the time she gets home from school, and I have a demanding 17 month old, so getting her to do any of the exercises at all is a battle. Especially since it is pretty much a list of the things she hates (being swung around, trampolining etc etc) due to her vestibular sensory issues. She responds much more positively to this kind of stuff when it comes from another adult and not me. Certainly her swimming teacher has achieved what I never could with her, and similarly in PE at school dd has been persuaded to try things I know I could never have got her to do.

And - is this pathetic and defeatist? - I feel I have enough battles with her over getting ready to go out/ to bed/whatever, or doing her homework. Ever since she started school, it has felt as though there were not enough hours in the day to include playdates, activities like ballet & swimming, homework, eating and just spending time playing and being in her own head.

I will certainly hunt down the SEN toolkit, thanks for that Dolfin. I feel so ignorant and I think my ignorance probably slows things down as I don't know the right questions to ask to ensure things don't slip through the net.

[chopstheduck]

It is realyl hard to balance everything. I have to admit though, I'd be quite surprised if the school would really take on regular OT sessions without a statement including it.

ds1 has had some OT type support in school, but on a very informal basis. The OT also makes recommendations about the equipment he uses, and the school has to incorporate that. The rest I am expected to do at home. I have four children so it isn't easy. I tend to get as much stuff from the OT and physio that I can do in everyday life, and with the others too.

Your 17mnth old could join in with trampolining, and swinging and you can do it with both of them, so keeping them both entertained. I've had mine lined up in a row before now doing exercises! Even three times a week would help, if you can't squeeze it in everday.

The handwriting, I do think the school should be supporting, and surely there must be facilities in school for that. your dd can't be the only one struggling, especially as she is still very young, and the teacher should be dealing with that.

Regarding the senco, I've foudn they are often incredibly busy. I have regular scheduled appointments (half termly) with mine, so I can discuss progress which are made weeks in advance. It also means I don't have to wait too long to see him when problems do crop up. I'd send a message to him about the EP referral, I don't see why you need to wait to see him for that to go ahead. Then, in the meantime, talk to the teacher at least.

I've often found the teachers a lot more helpful than the sencos tbh.

[Aranea]

Big respect to you, chops, managing to do the exercises with four children! The thing is I suppose it wouldn't feel so offputting if it were just a matter of setting 10 minutes aside to actually do the exercises. It's the extra half-hour of encouraging/cajoling/bullying/threatening that is involved in actually making it happen. The 17 month old loves to trampoline, swing etc. The 5yo will refuse point-blank to get involved in that kind of stuff when it is going on with her little sister. I simply cannot pretend it is fun for her.

[chopstheduck]

oh that must be hard. Have you spoken again to the OT to see if they haev any other suggestions that she would enjoy more?

Have you tried bribery? Chocolate or money works pretty well for me!

[Aranea]

Well I suppose the reason the OT has suggested all these things is that they are dealing with the area she has difficulty with. And if she has difficulty with it, she just doesn't want to do it. That doesn't help especially when combined with the fact that she is naturally bloody-minded and will refuse to do anything that she 'has' to do. She sometimes asks, 'do I have to?' about things that she would actually love to do, and I think she might actually refuse to do them if I answered, 'yes'!

Bribery helps a little. I used it when trying to get her to do her physio exercises, and it got me from total failure to the half-hour cajoling situation with the use of chocolate buttons. She tends to just lie down half way through and go all floppy. It is absolutely infuriating and I don't want to deal with it. Not even if you give me chocolate buttons.

[Dolfin]

Glinda is right the best results come when a school and parents work together. My ds current school/senco are brillient - I couldnt ask for more. However our experience of his previous school /senco was not positive. I had to be an advocate for my child to ensure that my childs specfic educational and emotional needs were being appropriately met (stamp my feet).

If the school/senco are not following professional advice, not anticipating / responding to potential barriers to learning that your child may encounter them they are accountable under the Disability Discrimination Act. The Equality and Human Rights Commission web site is good. Ipsea were brilliant.