6 months old - awake time and naps

[duende]

For a while my DS was going down for naps after being awake for 2-2.5 hours and it worked quite well. His naps were always short (30-40 minutes) so he'd have 3 or 4 a day. Now I can't seem to get him to sleep without a major meltdown and I was wondering if I am trying to put him down too soon? I have tried having him awake for 3 hours today but he still screamed when I was putting him down. I don't know if he was overtired or not tired enough...Everytime when I think I have learned to read his cues and understand his needs everything changes again :/
He has just cut his first two teeth and had his 3rd lot of jabs two days ago, so maybe this is also contributing to his grumpiness and difficulties with settling?

Anyway, could you wise mumsnetters advise - how long on avarage do babies his age manage to be awake for?

[teaandcakeplease]

Teething and feeling unwell always put a spanner in the works

At about 6 months ish both mine napped at 10.30 ish and 3pm ish only. Providing they slept well overnight and didn't wake too early. If they woke crazily early, their naps would end up being 9am, 12ish and maybe at 3.30pm ish instead...

I'm not an expert but what I often tell people is that once they are very overtired it can become a vicious cycle whereby they are so wired they can become so distressed that they find it hard to settle. This is because a stress hormone is released when over tired. If you know they are tired, they have a clean nappy and have recently been fed, push on through with getting to sleep. Maybe try some teething gel too? My 2 kids started teething by 4 months.

Just pick them up until they stop crying and then when they stop lie them down, when they start crying again, pick them, when they stop, lie them down. Do not leave the room with them, stay by the cot and keep doing it over and over. They will get the message in the end and finally go to sleep. It'll take 3 days of being consistent. The first time you may need to pick them up 70 times, the next nap time maybe 50 times etc. This is the method I used. I didn't feel so bad, as I wasn't leaving them to cry it out alone. It does work. I think this did come from one of the baby whisperer books originally.

It does require patience but unfortunately there does come a point when babies become more aware of their surroundings and do do this in my opinion.

It is a controversial area but if you feel comfortable give my advice a go.

Good luck x

[duende]

teaandcakes, thanks for your post. DS has days when he will go down for each nap in his cot, without any fuss. It may take him 10-20 minutes to fall asleep and I stroke him, put the dummy back in and leave the room - repeat however many times required, never actually leave him to cry. And then he has days when he seems to have forgotten how to settle and screams as soon as he sees the cot. Bizzare!
I have been using teething gel and resorted to calprofen last night.

He does start the day very early - usually no later than 6am, so his naps are closer to your 9am, 12ish and 3.30pm.

[teaandcakeplease]

It's only natural for them not to want to be put in a room all alone to sleep but want to be with you. Both mine would sometimes be ok and then sometimes not, at nap time.

Keep being consistent and this stage will pass. You're doing great and it sounds like you didn't need my advice really at all x

[duende]

teaandcake, thank you. You have made me feel better. It does help to hear it's all normal, it shall pass and you're not missing something obvious

[Lolbilly]

Hi. I've just had the same situation with DS who is nearly 5 months old. He really seemed like he was protesting when I put him down for naps and would only sleep for 30 mins and refuse to sleep longer. I also had no idea if he was over tired or not tired enough!!! It's difficult to figure it out sometimes. My dad told me before DS was born that just when you think you have everything sorted with a baby it all changes...sooo true!!
Anyho, I have extended his awake time and at first he had a meltdown at each nap time, but after 3 days he does seem to have got it. Today has fallen asleep easily on his own at nap time without any intervention from me and has slept for an hour and a half each time. Hurrah! Fingers crossed it continues. I also used the pick up put down method teaandcakes talked about. It was hard work but did seem to work.
Good luck and remember to find a way to treat yourself cos you deserve it, it's really hard work!

[TheBoosh]

We're just going through the same thing with our 6 month old. He goes down fine for his morning nap - which I have tried to limit to 30 mins or so in the hope of a lack of protest at his lunchtime nap - but to no avail! I think he just likes to sleep longer in the morning so I think I might brave it out and let him sleep longer tomorrow post breakfast and then see if that makes him less grumpy when he refuses a longer lunchtime nap. Today we had a mild protest at the start of the nap and then midway through he was awake and cross as anything. No matter what we did it wasn't right. In the end we got him out of his cot, but he then grumbled for most of the afternoon and refused to take any solids for dinner. Eventually we put him to bed earlier and he was spark out at 6.30. He didn't wake for a 10pm feed so when DH tried to rouse him he refused to take any milk. I suspect he will now wake in the night - but fingers crossed.

I know what you mean though - you get it all sussed and then - wham ALL CHANGE!!

[duende]

Lolbilly how has it been going for you? Is your new strategy still working? And how long do you keep your DS awake for now?

TheBoosh, how was your night?

It's been a bit difficult here the last few days. I think it's the combination of jabs, teething and his reflux flaring up again after we tried reducing his meds. He has been irritable and screaming a lot, naps only lasting 20-30 minutes regardless of how long he's been awake for.
He has just gone for his morning nap without major protests, hopefully things will start getting back to normal.

[teaandcakeplease]

The book I often refer to written by a sleep expert with children with over 30 years experience, says the morning nap develops first as their brain is developing and the afternoon one comes later. It's quite interesting. He doesn't mean don't put them down for naps in the afternoon, he just means they sleep longer in the morning nap, and then the morning nap falls away as they get bigger and then a long afternoon one develops. His book: www.amazon.co.uk/Healthy-Sleep-Habits-Happy-Child/dp/009190255X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12655&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 35943&sr=8-1

I personally wouldn't limit the morning nap The Boosh not at 6 months old. And put them down for their second nap when they seem tired instead (if they slept a long time in the morning), i.e. rubbing nose, eyes, yawning, going quiet etc. lay them down when you see some of these signs. Make your own routine almost? If the gap between naps is too close they may not settle for the second nap at lunch, if you see what I mean, so it maybe better to make your own routine for now, until your baby is slightly older and changes again

Once they're overtired they can get very distressed and then not actually settle for a nap, even though they're tired, or not sleep very long, so it's always a tricky balance on meeting their needs at this age. At least I've always found this with my two. And they can be so exhausted at night if they don't get their decent naps in the day, that they do exactly what your little boy did and will not wake for their feed at 10pm. I suppose some parents may keep their babies awake in the day so they sleep better at night, but my little ones got distraught without their naps, so that never felt right to me...

Anyway I'm no expert, I've just read a lot of books and learnt a lot the hard way with my 2 kids.

Hope things are getting better now x

[duende]

teaandcake, thank you for the recommendation, I have just ordered it (Amazon with its free delivery is far too tempting!).

I find it difficult to read DS's cues these days. He yawns most for the first hour after a nap and then just gets grizzly. Sometimes I think he's tired when in fact he's just bored so trying to put him to sleep really winds him up. (and then I'm wondering whether he's so annoyed because he's overtired or just the opposite! And I used to think that babies just fell asleep when tired, doh!)

[teaandcakeplease]

If only!

The book can be hard going and seems to contradict itself sometimes. It doesn't though, it's just you have to read it fully to understand his nuances. I never used his sleep training method. I used the baby whisperer PUPD one instead, but each to their own as the saying goes...

[Sigur]

I've finally got naps sorted with my nearly 6 month old having found schedules don't suit. She's ready to sleep between 2 & 2.5 hours after waking during the day working out as 3 naps 45 mins to 2 hrs long. Problem is I've never successfully laid her down awake and she wakes up if I lay her down asleep in the day. So I hold her all nap long... Any suggestions?

[teaandcakeplease]

I think at 6 months it's perfectly fine to get them used to napping in the cot in the day and not in your arms.

It will take a few days but they will come round to it in the end.

Try the ABC method in this book as it's not very harsh compared to other methods. The longer you leave it though, the harder it will be to do in my experience.

[fairylights]

another 6 month-er here who is REALLY resisting day time sleep - its beginning to drive me nuts..
my ds (who is 3) was a very good day time napper (although not so great at night..) so i am struggling to know what to do with an overtired grumpy baby who is usually so smiley. The main problem really is that she just has to fit in with whatever else is going on in the household - taking ds to playschool/picking up/going to friends houses etc.. so trying to establish any pattern seems impossible.
BUT ds is going to his grandma's at half term so i was thinking maybe i should really try and get her naps sorted and may well persevere with PUPD - have tried it the last few days but given up too soon i reckon
! Glad i'm not the only one anyway..

[Sigur]

Thank you very much T&CP, I don't feel such a doofus now. Will let you know how it goes.

Fairy Lights, I'm a novice and can't even begin to imagine what it's like with more than one!!! But can sympathise with the results of not napping. I found that DD had to go to sleep when it was right for her or I had no chance, so I now know what her intervals and signs are and go with her flow. That means I often miss mother and baby and have to call friends on spec when I know she'll be awake. I try to time the journeys back to when she needs to start her nap. With some friends I'll sit with her sleeping in my arms for a couple of hours.
A bit restricting, but she's much lovelier for it and I'm working on the basis it will pass.
I have occasionally tweaked her wake up to put nap number 1 where I need it, but that's the most enforcement I've managed!

[Krynster]

So glad I'm not the only one - I'm also trying to follow my DD on her intervals and just adjust daily - it does make planning things quite tricky and drives my husband bonkers at weekends, but sometimes it just about works.

Duende - I had been working on the basis of a 3hr interval between naps but on the basis of the last couple of weeks I think my DD can only actually go for 2.5hrs. After 3hrs she takes MUCH longer to go to sleep through overtiredness.

Good luck on the cot, Sigur!