11 ys old ds wants to stay up late then get up early - driving me mad

[ssd]

he wants to watch I'm a celebrity - everyone (so he says) in his class watches it till 10. then he wants to get up at the weekends before 8......he's knackered and its driving me nuts. I told him to get to sleep earlier but he says he can't get to sleep. he hates reading which I know would help him. he's not getting story tapes he can bloody pich up a book, but he won't.
and then his little brother gets up even earlier than him - 7 ish.

they are both driving me crazy

we have no childcare help at all and they have had the same routine since day 1. both dh or put them to bed at night, no disruption.

ds2 still wakes up with nightmares someitmes and ds1 still fights sleep AT AGE 11!!!

I was at the end of my tether years ago, now its just totally making me desperate.

anyone with kids this age, please advise what you did with crap sleepers (and if your kids sleep 12 hours a night please don't give me advise, I've had it with people with great sleepers telling me what I'm always doing wrong)

[ssd]

I know that bit at the end there was nippy, I'm tired and I've just screamed at the kids and made them cry so I feel uptight

I don't mind the older one watching tv a bit later at the weekend, but he moans every night to watch bloody celebrity then he wakes before 8 at the weekends and starts fighting with his brother because they are both knackered

I just thought at age 8 and 11 they might be sleeping in a bit and not fighting bed time every bloody night

[ssd]

and what makes it worse on here is all the sleep threads seem to be about babies and toddlers making me feel everyone else with older kids enjoys a lie in and has kids that sleep well

I'm having a wee conversation with myself here as no one else seems to be on this thread, never mind, just writing it down helps get it off my chest a bit

[MyCatIsABiggerBastardThanYours]

ssd - I've started a thread about a sleep issue with my 9mth old ds at the moment and that is doing me in (4yr old DD didn's sleep for 18mths I nearly went mad) so you have muy full sympathy.

Can't you tape it and let him it in the morning before school. That way you might get him to bed a bit sooner and not have to worry about him getting up too early because he can watch it quietly on his own.

Don't know about the rest of it though. Consistency about lights out time, no arguing, ignoring all requests, firm boundaries? Just making guesses here but these things work with my 4yr old when she's playing up.

[ssd]

thanks mycat!

I do tape it and he knows he can watch it in the morning but he still goes on and on

also I find a lot of it too grown up for him and certainly for his 8 yrs old brother who would be watching it with him in the morning....

he needs to grow up a lot.. on minute he is mature then he's acting like a 2 yr old, he's going to high school next yr and still expects me to run after him

[MyCatIsABiggerBastardThanYours]

My pleasure (I hate it when a thread doesn't get answered, particularly when someone sounds desperate. I know its a fast moving website so it can't be helped sometimes though. Just hoping someone will give me some tips on mine now).

I think (from what I recall about my brother) that 11yr old boys can be quite immature. I think you probably need to be firm but calm in what you are saying. Bed time is 9pm (say), go upstairs at 8.30 for reading etc, lights out at 9 (or whatever time you say). No arguments (from you, probably some from him), calm and just keep saying that this is the way it is. MIght take a few days, but might help.

If you want him to do a bit more, how about making him work a bit for his pocket money. No pocket money til his bedroom is tidy, or he has filled the dishwasher, or whatever you choose. GIve him responsiblities (not big ones).

Not sure what you think about books but I'm reading Diva's and Dictators and that has some really good tips in it (my DD can be very much a Diva on occassion!) which might help.

[ssd]

thanks for the advice!

I do try to stay calm, but with his carry on and his brother joining in, sometimes they drive me mad

[castille]

I'm having similar issues at the moment with my DDs who are 12 and 10. DD2 particularly is looking exhausted because she can't/won't sleep and although she's in bed by 9 and reads every night, she hasn't fallen asleep before 10.30 for nearly 2 weeks now.

DD1 is very confrontational at the moment so sometimes goes to sleep late to make a point (and she's the one who has to get up at 6.30am...)

I try to tell myself (and them) that they are the ones who will suffer the most for lack of sleep. But it does get on my nerves when they keep each other awake

So sorry, no advice but much sympathy!

[inthesticks]

I have a 13 year old and 11 year old DSs. Bedtimes were always such a battle but I found that by having a strict and NEVER negotiable bedtime it helped. I "review" the bedtime agreement each birthday.
When DS1 was 11 it was difficult. They are reaching an age where peer pressure kicks in (and this will only get worse). All the other kids in the world are allowed to stay up all night and watch what they like, apparently.
At 11 they are still really needing a lot of sleep but haven't yet reached that hormonal stage which would allow them to sleep until lunchtime if you let them.
Bedtime when DS1 was 11 was 8.30 and lights out at 9.00. This was strictly applied every night because IME if I relaxed the rule once then I lost the battle.
When he was 12 I changed the rule to allow a later bedtime (10pm)at weekends and school holidays. This worked really well as he felt he had some control and he was more inclined to go to bed without a fuss on weeknights.
DS2 is easier as he likes his bed and is happy to crawl up on time. We still do the bedtime agreement though. I type it out and we sign it and stick it on the fridge.

[bruffin]

Actually at 11 they need less sleep than a teenager. I posted on here last year about DD not going to sleep until midnight and the found out that 11 years often only need 8 hours sleep this was me a year ago was called christywhisty then

a year later and starting secondary and she is asleep a lot earlier usually between 9 and 10

[ssd]

wow bruffin!

thanks for ALL REPLIES, seems 11 yrs old is a bit of a tricky age, not a baby but not yet a teenager (god help us then!!)

I'll have to try to be more relaxed, they have never been good sleepers or kids who like a lie in and maybe I just need to accept that

you'd think on these dark winter nights going to bed earlier would be nice, but its just seen as a threat in this house. then when the light nights come back, in this street there are 5 and 6 yr old who are allowed out to play later than my 2??!! so what do you do about that, except want to scream at the mothers?

ds1 loves going to a sleepover ar a friends house when he's invited, he (and usually the other boys) see it as a personnal challenge to see who can keep awake all bloody night...

[bruffin]

DD ended up at an unplanned sleepover last night at a house a few doors down from us. I got a phonecall at 1.30 this morning , could she come home as she felt sick. Went to collect her and I think she was just tired and a bit uncomfortable as 5 sharing a small space. She slept in until 12.30 this morning/afternoon

I would say reading my old thread my worries have been unfounded and she has been brilliant at getting up and going to school, even catching the 7.10 train some days to go to an early trampoline club.

[bruffin]

Actually now it's my 14yr old DS driving me mad. He is sitting on the kitchen work surface playing with DH's Itouch and telling me he is not tired, thankfully it's an inset day tomorrow.

[CarGirl]

Can you force him to do a lot more exercise? Have you tried cutting out food stuff that may be making it harder for him to go to sleep - lots of squashes have nasties in them I think it's aspertime. Even lots of sugary foods can hinder sleeping.

I'm the insomniac in my house and I know exercise and what I eat/drink does make a difference.

Calm but firm definately but look at what else may be influencing his ability to get to sleep - TV can actually be visually stimulating and stop people sleeping (fortunately I find it relaxing and makes me drift off!)