I'm running out of patience fast with my 4yr old DD

[MuppetsMuggle]

for the past 3 months she has been a complete nightmare for bedtime. Is perfect during the day except for the normal 4yr old moments, but soon as it comes to bedtime its like a switch in her brain flicks and on comes naughty mode, i'm loosing my patience rapidly. we do the bedtime routine where she has a drink, goes to the loo, I read her a story and she either has a audio story book on or a dvd on which the TV goes on timer for 1/2 hr and when it switches off its off. Now i've not been very well for a long time but been alot worse since March 09, all joints, spinal and muscle related so I have trouble esp at nights getting up and down like a yoyo even more so when I have giddy days.

I've taken toys and privledges away and when i feel like crap most of the time i end up giving in because i can't go up and down like a yoyo. I'm more tired than ever, which is not only medical related but due to DD being a pain in the arse for bed.

Any advice would be appreciated on how I can tackle this. DP isn't here every night and when he is she is so spiteful - due to being tired - as fine when not.

[MuppetsMuggle]

bump pls

[MuppetsMuggle]

please I am at my wits end

[TimothyTigerTuppennyTail]

What do you mean by 'up & down' like a yo-yo'? Is she expecting you to go up to her?

[MuppetsMuggle]

Yes, she screams the house down if I don't and ends up either making herself sick or stops breathing due to screaming so much

[MuppetsMuggle]

for instance tonight, she laughed and smiled when I went up one of the last times which pissed me off totally.

[TimothyTigerTuppennyTail]

Ah, sounds worse than DS who just sits on the stairs and whinges.

I've done a sticker chart for DS. He gets 1 star for every night he goes to bed without a fuss and he chooses the treat he wants at the end. The more expensive, the more stars he needs. I put a picture of the covetted toy on the chart as well.

It's not totally foolproof, but he is a lot better.

It might be worth a try.

[MuppetsMuggle]

we have a reward chart already as DD was being challenging through the day too and knows if she is good for bed that is one extra sticker for the day and she can choose a treat at the weekend if she has been good, she just couldn't care less at bedtime and I just don't know what to do.

[TimothyTigerTuppennyTail]

When you take toys or priviledges away, how does she earn them back?

[nigglewiggle]

Have you tried just not engaging with her at all. Just return her to bed, say something bland like "sleep time now" and head out of the room. I had to do this REPEATEDLY with DD1, but she got the message pretty quickly.

If they don't get anything out of it, they wont do it (in theory ).

[MuppetsMuggle]

by playing nicely and helping mummy out, like tidying up her toys when she is finished with them.

In some way i'm not sure if its attention seeking, as i'm with her during the day and we do lots of stuff together not only indoors but go out to various places too. I can only do so much aswell due to my medical condition at the moment so I do feel a little guilty when I can do all the things I used to do its just not possible I do however over exert myself which my doctors have strictly told me not to do but its hard when you have a demanding 4yr old who expects to be occupied by you 24/7.

[MuppetsMuggle]

Niggle - tried that but she just screams and screams till she either makes herself sick or stops breathing and the way I feel I can't be doing with all the screaming but I feel so towards her right now and its making me that at night she knows shes being naughty and knows shes winding me up and knows i'm ill and i'm at my wits end, I end up crying most nights as feel like a crap mum.

[TimothyTigerTuppennyTail]

When DS has toys confiscated he earns them back in relation to why they were taken. So, for example, if I confiscate a toy for bad behaviour at bedtime it's only good behaviour at betime that earns it back.

Would that be worth a try?

[TimothyTigerTuppennyTail]

bedtime

[MuppetsMuggle]

thats worth a try.

It will sound bad but i'll be glad to not have DD tomorrow night, my lovely mum said she will have her overnight so DP & I could get one good nights sleep, as we are both looking shite ill.

[nigglewiggle]

You are not a crap mum. You obviously care and that means you are far from crap.

You need to develop a poker face. Don't let her know that she is getting to you. Put her back to bed before she gets to the screaming stage. With DD1 I was putting her back to bed every 30 seconds, then every minute, then every 2 mins etc. She eventually got the idea and got bored.

They like to know that they are having an impact, so if you can sound as calm as possible and make it as monotonous as you can then the more likely it is to work.

I hope you get it sorted soon, I know how exhausting it can be.

[msled]

you poor thing. It all sounds very stressful for everyone. I think her behaviour sounds so extreme, I might see my GP about it and see if you can get some professional help with it. My kids have me up and down quite often (drink/another drink/bad dream etc) but the breath holding and vomiting sounds unusual. She obviously doesn't like being on her own at night. Is something bothering her?

[TimothyTigerTuppennyTail]

Would your mum mind having my DS as well?

[hopeful ]

[MuppetsMuggle]

thanks niggle.

my defences are down as i'm not 100% physically so mentally I feel down too. What I don't understand is why all of a sudden shes become like this as since birth she has always been a brilliant sleeper.

[MuppetsMuggle]

msled, I dont know if it is concern for me not being well. I've been in and out of hospital, have episodes where I cant walk without help etc.
My nan actually said to me the other day about speaking to my GP about it and see what he suggests, have appointment in august so will ask him then, but what to do in the meantime!

TTTT - LOL! I think my mum is dreading having DD at the mo!

[Feelingforty]

I would take away the tv & the cd/music & get in bed with her to get her to sleep. After she's used to actually getting to sleep, phase it down to a cuddle in bed, then a kiss & sit on the bed & then just a kiss.

Sometimes they just get into a paddy about getting to sleep, so if you can avoid this, you should fine she goes to sleep quite quickly.

I do this with my 2 sometimes & they are always fine.....although sometimes I do drop off

[MuppetsMuggle]

2:30 in morning and she is awake still, in my bed now just to see if she will go to sleep.

FG - I normally sit with her for 10 mins or so and have a cuddle, but will try that.

CRS - She is verbally mature yes but very stubborn. Her words to me about 10 mins ago, I don't want to go to sleep, so therefore YOU are not allowed to either. this is from my 4yr old daughter. Will try and find out why in the morning, don't think its her bed tho as never had a problem with it before.

I feel really down as though shes got something against me at bedtime and overnight.

[Othersideofthechannel]

DD says things like that to me when she is angry. She's 4 too.

Would you be prepared to let her fall asleep elsewhere then put her to bed once asleep? Let her play quietly in her room until she drops off or asks to go to bed. No stimulating activities allowed. I'm sure she'd be asleep before 2.30am and you wouldn't have to do any to-ing and fro-ing.

When DD says she doesn't want to sleep, I just say 'ok, play quietly and let me know when you are ready' and usually she is ready to sleep before I have finished her older brother's bedtime story. If not, she usually calls me within 30 minutes for a bedtime story. It helps that she loves looking at picture books and acting out stories with soft toys so quite often she plays in her bed.

When does she start school? She'll be dropping off over her evening meal then!

[Othersideofthechannel]

Oh, and I think I read somewhere that TV is too stimulating for bedtime (although I always fall asleep when I sit down in front of it )

[BonsoirAnna]

Can you try getting her absolutely exhausted by eg taking her swimming during the day? And try to avoid the TV - as OSOTC says, it stimulates some people too much for them to go to sleep.