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pu/pd at 11 months

(10 Posts)
Fabiabi Wed 10-Jun-09 22:32:39

I need help.

My daughter responded really well to pu/pd at 6 months and slept through for ages, but has now stopped. I think this is because I couldn't cope with any crying at all and kept feeding her to sleep whenever she cried. Then we went on holiday and my mum got her to sleep by rocking her in the buggy, and now that is all she'll sleep in. Tonight I tried to feed her to sleep but she woke after 30 mins cos she was in cot not buggy. So I have to wake and rock the buggy when she wakes.

Everything is harder for me because my husband died in February - totally unexpectedly and suddenly. He was great at the pu/pd thing, but I couldn't do it. He died while putting her to bed for a nap so all this is very emotional for me and I just can't really cope with anything.

My mum is going to help with pu/pd, but I don't know how you do it if the baby can stand up - she is 11 months, and stands in her cot all the time. I can't access the baby whisperer website that I looked at last time.

Life is terrible at the moment, but is made much more unbearable without sleep.

DaddyJ Thu 11-Jun-09 10:23:28

I am so sorry about your loss.
I hope you are getting a lot of RL support, that's really tragic.

With regard to the sleep issue, I think you/your Mum can first try and put her down when she gets up.
If she simply refuses to lie down then I would add some gradual retreat to Pu/Pd.
In other words, let her stand and, this is the hard bit, have a shout while you sit on a chair by the door (inside the room).
Go back to her after a period of time of your choosing and do Pu/Pd.
She will stand up again, you sit down and repeat the whole thing until she's knackered and you got your message across.

Throughout this try to keep eye contact and talking to a minimum but it can be helpful to repeat certain phrases like 'shhh' and 'it's ok, time for sleeep now' when you go to her.
When you are sitting on the chair, lean back, close your eyes and occasionally whisper 'time for sleep now'.

What do you think, would that work with your dd?

BeatrixRotter Thu 11-Jun-09 18:53:44

Have you tried it again yet Fabiabi?

I'm so sorry for your loss. I am by no means an expert but I wanted to post as my DD is the same age.

I have found the Teach Yourself Baby Sleep book very helpful and can post you their method on dealing with a 12 month old baby that needs props to get to sleep. It advocates developing a strong bedtime routine and using close physical contact to soothe to sleep. I don't mind going into more detail if you'd like.

The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems book recommends PU/PD be used differently for an older baby. When she cries for you wait for her to stand up before intervening. Don't pick her all the way up unless she's very upset. Try to do the PD part of the routine without picking up. Repeating calm phrases as suggested above will help. I could go on from the book if you'd like?

It is realy hard for the first few nights to do these things but hopefully your daughter will adapt quickly. You said your mum would help? It will make a difference to be able to take turns and have a break.

You know your daughter best of all so it may be that a bit of each method with some of your own things thrown in is the best way to deal with it. She will get there though.

Fabiabi Thu 11-Jun-09 21:08:37

Thank you both for your help.

I am going to wait for a few days before doing anything cos my father in law is coming to stay and I don't want him upset by her crying. I think I might try to look at the Teach Yourself book you mentioned. I wonder if she wakes up for cuddles because I have stopped bf in the day. I'd like more detail if you have time to give it.

I think pu/pd is harder now with her standing, but I just need to be firm and do as you say Daddyj - which is so hard.

I also think that the fact that we keep staying out at people's houses, and are still at my mum's instead of at home since my husband died doesn't help her. She is doing incredibly well generally though, and I can't berudge her seperation anxiety since it is her experience that parents do go away and don't come back.

Thanks for the help, any more will be gratefuly recieved.

BeatrixRotter Thu 11-Jun-09 21:58:01

A really solid consistent bedtime routine will help her to feel at ease even when she is in diferent places. Making sure she has had her dinner at the right time so she eats plenty. Start to wind her down with gentle music, stories, cuddles. A nice bath with lavender, take her through to her room with soft lighting, give her her last feed, don't let her drop off, read the same story each night and then put her to bed (obviously this bit will be the hard part for now). Once it is established it won't matter so much if you miss out bits of it if you need to or are somewhere else. You could try putting something that smells of you in her cot.

This is from the Teach Yourself Book (it's by Andrea Grace and is sold in Waterstones and I'm sure elsewhere) and is aimed at helping a baby who is used to being fed to sleep:

Try not to let her sleep after 3pm. Give her a carb rich supper and make sure she has had planty of fluids during the day.

Develop a highly repetitive and consistent bedtime routine. Give a bath and take her directly to her bedroom.

Breastfeed her (or whatever) but do not allow her to fall asleep at the breast. If she does speak softly to wake her up.

Cuddle her and show her the same book each night, if she refuses just show her the cover.

Have a kiss goodnight ritual and put her into the cot awake.

When/if she cries give her as much physical contact as she needs to feel safe. Stroke, pat her,lean right in. Try not to lift her out. The aim is that she goes to sleep aware that she is in the cot and even if you are there this is still very good progress. Remind yourself that any tears are out of tiredness and frustrated not hunger or fear and you are teaching her the skills she needs.

As she enters sleep withdraw the amount of physical contact so that you are sitting there quietly.

You might need to settle her the same way when she wakes in the night.

The book suggests a regime of how to gradually withdraw. Each step should last as many nights as you feel comfortable with.

1. Stroke her back, lean right in. Do not rock or feed her to sleep.
2. Sit with your hand on her back. If she wants to be stroked do so but cut down on the duration. Try not to touch her as she enters sleep.
3. Sit beside the cot and touch her hand
4. Move away from her slightly. Cut down on eye contact and avoid touching.
5. Place her in the cot and then leave. You may have pop in a few times to reassure her.

I realise it is not exactly the same situation but thought it might be helpful.

BeatrixRotter Thu 11-Jun-09 22:32:37

There is also someadvice about dealing with a baby who won't sleep in the cot. It is basically the same ideas as above but talks about adopting a calm, confident, reassuring manner once she is in the cot. Try not to lift her out but if you have to put her down again as soon as she is calm.

Two options are mentioned for a baby that won't lie down. Firsty lie her down in a comfy sleep position, if she stands immediately either:

1 Place your hands on or around her and wait for her to lie down in her own time. Help her to get comfy if she needs it but follow her lead> Don't get her out unless you feel she is unwell. This process may take a long time so you need to be very patient. As soon as she lies down praise her warmly. Stay beside her until she falls asleep. The idea is you are supporting her to learn to settle herself. Or

2 Reposition her briefly before leaving the room. Still leave even if she is getting up. Return every 5 minutes just to lay her back down. Reinforce your actions by saying lie down in a calm manner. Don't get into a tussle and don't try and hold her down. It is more important that she lies down than she stays down. Staying down will come later when she gets tired and gets the message. This firmer approach is meant to teach then to settle to sleep by teaching them they need to lie down.

As I said before you might find a combinaton of methods is right for you. I do think a strong bedtime routine with plenty of sleep cues will give her a feeling of security and this is something you can do straight away and leave the harder stuff for when you don't have visitors. I have really found this book helpful and it has lots of advice for all different problems that might arise.

She has learnt to sleep a couple of different ways so she can and will learn a new way. Find a way that works for you, even if does mean a little more help than you feel you should be giving as long as you both get some rest that is the important thing. Best of luck, I hope it goes well.

DaddyJ Thu 11-Jun-09 23:21:41

'I can't berudge her seperation anxiety since it is her experience that parents do go away and don't come back.'
sad
Take good care of yourself and your lo.
I like BR's suggestions, let us know how you get on.

Fabiabi Fri 12-Jun-09 21:07:00

Thank you that is great advice. I am getting myself prepared to tackle the situation. It all went very odd last night when I was delighted that she had been asleep in her cot for a couple of hours, then she started being sick without waking up which was odd and worrying. She was fine today though, and has a new tooth!

That advice has given me a lot to think about. Thank you.

Umlellala Sun 14-Jun-09 21:13:30

Sorry for your loss, how sad for both of you sad.

Obviously, you know when you need to change things but just to say that I feed and rock my 11mth old to sleep (he sleeps in bed alone for evening, then I join him later). His sleep has steadily improved (bar teething hiccups and breathing issues) and last night he only woke once!

If you would be happier just cuddling her to sleep, don't feel pressured to have to get her sleeping alone.

But BR's suggestions are similar to what I do with my son when I am too tired to rock him(though I don't leave the room).

With my daughter, I played lots of pretend sleep games during day in cot, to help her feel happy there.

ev123 Mon 06-Jul-09 11:59:42

my 11 month son stands up whenever I put him in his cot, so I have to hold him down to get him to sleep. It's best if he can't see me other wise he wants to get up and keeps crying. So I sit next to his cot on the floor and hold his legs through the bars. If he gets too desperate I read a book to him or sing to him or play music to distract him and only pick him up as an absolute last resort. It's working for me at the moment.
good luck

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