What am I doing wrong? : (

[spongebrainbigpants]

I know this problem isn't as bad as some but I'm on my knees and don't know what to do .

DS (7 1/2 mths) does not want to sleep - he fights sleep constantly. He will only nap in the day when forced to and will rarely go for more than 30 mins (I often spend an hour getting him to sleep and then he naps for 30 mins - what's the point? ).

But it's getting him to sleep in the evening that I'm finding harder and harder - we have a bedtime routine that we've followed since he was a few weeks old, and it used to work a treat (nothing special - bath, bottle, bed, story), but now, after story is finished and I stroke his head, say goodnight and leave the room he starts screaming. I go back in and hold him, or stroke his nose, etc, he calms down, as soon as I leave the room he starts screaming again.

Can't do controlled crying as he moves around so much in the cot that he ends up getting stuck so can't leave him for more than 5 mins anyway.

It's taking me up to two hours (from 7pm in the cot til about 9pm to sleep) to get him to sleep, by which stage I'm on my knees with exhaustion, can't be bothered to cook so end up going to bed hungry or eating junk and just sitting staring at the tv.

Dh works long hours so often not home to help.

DS will then sleep til about 1am/2am before waking again, and the only way he will sleep is in my bed - I've resorted to doing this cos I'm so dog tired that I can't do all the bloody sleep training cos I just sit outside DS's room and cry .

I'm an insomniac and a really light sleeper too so even when dh does the nights (which is alot considering he works in a v full on job) I still wake and then can't sleep again.

Apologies for the long post, but I'm on my knees. Thing is DS is the happiest, most contented baby in the daytime so I know I'm very lucky on that score but sleep is horrendous. Do I just give up and let him fall asleep downstairs?

I'm desperate, please help. Want to start another IVF cycle in the Spring but can't see me having the energy right now .

Thank you. Got to go, he's started screaming again .

[thisisyesterday]

i would carry on doing whatever works best. if that means getting him to sleep on your bed then do it! he's still only a little baby.,

forget about anyone who tells you that their kid was sleeping through from x weeks old and all that. it doesn't matter because that's their child not yours.

your baby obviously needs you with him to fall asleep, and that's ok, it really is.
you all need your rest, so get him to sleep however you need to, and then get some sleep yourself!

will it work during the day do you think? if you lie down upstairs with him on your bed, dark room nice and quiet?

[ANTagony]

I have one brilliant sleeper and one really bad sleeper. He had 1.5hr bouts of sleep.

There's no one magic answer. But if you are exhausted you're in no place to ration it all through. Could you co sleep/ let him sleep downstairs, do what ever it takes for a week to get back into good condition yourself and then review best action?

When you've got to a state of exhaustion its really hard to rationalise and see that there will be an end to this and you'll think what was all the fuss about. It will happen

[UnrealisticExpectations]

That sounds really tough! I really feel for you. I'd agree with thisisyesterday in saying that, if it works for you, go with it.

But is it working for you? I'm a light sleeper too and I HATE it on the odd occassion I've had to take DS (my second) into bed with me. He might nod off, but I hardly sleep all night.

TIY's idea of laying down with him on a dinnertime to try and get a nap sounds like a really good idea. He might sleep better and it'd do you good to get a nap too.

Do you think he's maybe over-tired? It sounds ridiculous but that's something my first really, really suffered with. I still have to be very careful with her and she's 4 1/2 now! I had an horrendous time with her when she was little. She was a really lively baby and I found the only way to deal with her was to nap her religiously. If she got over-tired she was hell on earth - there was just no way I could get her to settle herself if she got too tired. I'm not a fan of controlled crying, but sometimes it was just the only way I could get her down for her nap if she got too tired. Reading your post really brought back how bad it was - I remember putting her down one particular afternoon: she was so wired that she just HAD to have a nap, but she was far too tired to go down. I had to run myself a bath and put my ears under the water until she finally dropped off!

Paradoxically, she got off to sleep much easier when she was less tired. It was always easier to get her down when she was approaching being tired rather than past it. At that age, I think she maybe had 2 short naps a day. Maybe about 11am and 3pm, but it's so long ago that I can't remember. I often find that, even now, on the rare occassions DS wakes in the night, it's often when he's missed his nap or had less sleep than usual the previous night.

I found a thick 'grobag' is great for restless babies too, rather than blankets. They can't become uncovered and makes it a lot harder for them to get their legs stuck in the cot rails too. Both of mine have been in them since they were big enough right up until they were well over 2.

Have you mentioned it to your health visitor? Do they have any suggestions?

Mine are 4 1/2 and 2 now and they both sleep like logs so there's light at the end of the tunnel. Neither of mine slept through until they were about 14 months. They tend to tire themselves out more physically when they can crawl or, even better, when they start to walk.

If it's any consolation, her unwillingness to lay down meant that people always commented on what a beautiful shaped head she had! Every cloud...

[lulu05]

I think co-sleeping is great but if you aren't sleeping then it doesn't sound like the best thing for you and your DS.
The thing which struck me with your post is that if you settle your DS in his cot awake after his bedtime routine, leave the room then return to reassure him when he is distressed you are virtually doing controlled crying. It is horrible to have to resort to cc but 2 hours to get to sleep at night and 1 hour to get a 30 minute nap doesn't sound like great fun for either of you. Does DS eventually fall asleep in his cot by his own? Or do you cuddle him to sleep or something else? Sorry I really sympathise as I had a bad sleeper in my DS but he was an absolute delight in every other respect but like you I got bit desperate....

[spongebrainbigpants]

Thank you all so much for your replies - when I wrote that post DS was still crying and so was I. I felt so low.

Your replies have all been really helpful. I'll try to answer some points:

1. I do try and nap with him now in the day if I can - and this week I actually managed to get him to sleep for TWO AND A HALF HOURS in the day cos I slept with him. Unfortunately this isn't always practical because I'm not always at home on my own to do this, but do it when I can.

1. Totally take the point about him being over-tired, but I really struggle to put him down when he's not tired at all, he's never impressed with that and just screams until I give in and get him out of his cot.

1. I am sort of doing CC but only because I can't cope with being in the room with him all the time because it makes me cry . But he doesn't fall asleep when crying, I eventually rock/stroke him to sleep and he's so exhausted from screaming that he drops off.

1. Co-sleeping is often better than leaving him in his cot cos at least I'm resting in bed - and also my dh is a very good sleeper so often co-sleeps with him instead while I sleep in a separate room. However, I'm not sure how that would work at 7pm - if I went to bed with him then I would probably fall asleep too and then would wake up in the early hours because I wouldn't need to sleep 7-7! It could totally mess up my sleep pattern - any ideas?

1. We have tried grobags and he hated them, but maybe we could try again now he's older. He doesn't like being too hot and constricted and I think that's why he never got on with grobags.

I think part of the problem with the daytime naps is that we never worried about it in the early days - DS actually slept through from 5 weeks, 7-7 without a murmur!! We couldn't believe it and didn't worry that he would then not bother to sleep much in the day - I mean, 12 hours a night at that age was amazing! Everyone kept on commenting on how well we looked . Then, at four months, he stopped again and his sleeping got worse and worse, and this resisting sleep has been getting worse now too.

I'll keep persisting with the daytime naps and see if that makes a difference - although on days when he does sleep longer in the day it doesn't seem to make any difference to his nighttime sleeping .

Thank you again. It's so good to have a sympathetic ear and some useful suggestions.

[UnrealisticExpectations]

I had a friend (and mother of 3) who said to me, over 4 years ago, when DD was driving me nuts, "Good or bad, everything's a phase." For some reason, it irked me slightly when she said it, but I find it really relaxing now! He will sleep through: maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday.... as they say!

[Desiderata]

OK, I haven't read the whole thread, but from your OP, I would say that you did too much too soon.

In other words, you've been over good as a parent, and now, he can't get to sleep without you.

At 7.5 months, I didn't bathe my son, read to him at night, or do anything with him very much. I just put him to bed when he fell asleep.

I think you've been trying too hard, bless you. Why don't you just let him hang around and fall asleep when he wants to?

[systemsaddict]

sponge this feels so similar. C slept really well as a baby but it went downhill from 4 months and now she sleeps more like a newborn! I am sure she has got dependent on me to get her back to sleep. The evenings have been OK, since we did controlled crying at bedtime consistently for a few days, she still goes down crying but normally not for more than 10 minutes (I go in after 10 minutes for a quick check / cuddle); but the nights are bad, she wakes for a feed at 10.30-11.00 and from then on she just wakes up and wants to be with me constantly. And she is lovely in the day too so I feel ungrateful complaining about it, but it's got so bad this week it's wrecking our family life now. I have reached my limits and have got to the point where I'm not a good mum in the day, to either child, so however I feel about controlled crying it's the only way I know to address this successfully.

With ds, whose sleep was similar at 9 mo., I ended up doing a version of CC following an online book called 'The Sleep Sense Program' which you can find if you search, it did work. The technique isn't anything different from any other controlled crying but the way the author writes helped me to understand what was going on and to come to terms with doing it without feeling guilty. I am planning to do same with C now and will report back! (I did also try the No Cry Sleep Solution book first but it didn't work for us - but it did teach me lots about baby sleep patterns.)

Huge hugs, it's so so so so hard when the sleep deprivation is making you feel low. Selfishly it does help me to know I'm not alone in this. And you haven't done anything wrong! this is just what babies are like.

[Mummywannabe]

Feel a bit of a fraud for posting advice as my DS is having problems at night too but....

I second the overtired thing, since i've been almost fanatical about day sleeps he is a lot better and now has 2 x 1 1/2 hours a day. Used the baby whisperer technique of pick up put down - but only in the day(sounds nuts but it worked for him)

Good luck. Now all i have to do is get my monster to sleep longer than 2 hours in a stretch at night and i'm sorted!

[Penny70]

Hi there
It sounds really tough for you! I am having very similar problems with DS 12 weeks, in particular not sleeping (in his bed) during the day, getting completely overtired and taking ages and ages to go down at night - spending most of my evening in the bedroom trying to get him to go to sleep, never get any time with DH as a result. I know he is still very young but am worried about getting into bad habits but feel confused by all the contradictory advice in all those parenting books. Have decided to stop reading and go with my own insincts (which are not always totally clear!) By the sounds of other posts our babies are not the only ones with these problems and I guess that is a bit reassuring.
One thing I have found that works pretty well for day time naps is having him in a sling. Most times I put him in that he goes off to sleep and sleeps pretty soundly, sometimes for a couple of hours. IN fact he is asleep in it now. Means I can get on and do other things as well. I have two, a Baby Bjorn and a cloth one which I prefer for indoors but he settles in both the same. Not sure if your DS might be too big for a sling now at 7 mths? The one I have you can wear larger babies in.
All the best!

[Essie3]

Hi Sponge. As the mother of a baby who has slept through...once I thought I'd share my pearls of wisdom with you!

I second what others say. If he sleeps if you co-sleep, then co-sleep. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. (I say this as someone who just can't co-sleep , but then I also have a baby who settles easily, although he hasn't slept through and I haven't had more than five hours sleep in one go since November when he became a bottle refusenik - whatever! Swings and roundabouts!)
How about you lie down with him at 7pm, and read in bed? (My greatest pleasure in life...) Then once he's sleeping, tiptoe out. (If you're worried about him rolling, get some of those bed 'side' things for toddler beds - that's one of my fears with co-sleeping.) Watch TV in the bedroom? I've always said no way to a TV in the bedroom, but hell, when you're sleep deprived, anything, anything is accepted!
When we struggle to get Iestyn to sleep - and it does happen although less now that he's eating loads (so there, I've typed it, he'll do it tonight of course ) - we put him in the car and drive. Half an hour and he sleeps and stays sleeping.
We've admitted this and people have said things like 'oh that's a bad habit to get into', 'he'll get used to it and want it every night'. You'll get criticism like that when people talk about co-sleeping.
(A friend with a baby who slept through told me about someone she knows who drives from West London to the first junction of the M4 every night with their baby - originally I thought it was hilarious, now I think what the hell, it's only petrol, and it's only 1 junction...) So what if we have to drive for half an hour every night? So what if you get into a co-sleeping habit that carries on and he can't get to sleep any other way? You need to remember with these 'habits' that THEY ARE NOT FOR LIFE. Ever heard of a 14 year old who will only sleep after a drive in the car? Ever heard of a kid unable to go to university because he has to co-sleep with his ageing mother? It's just a phase. Always gone by secondary school!
You just have to do what works for you, because you can't care for A as well as you could if you're all tired and unwell and unhappy. So co-sleeping works - might make, er, amorous relations a bit more tricky but you work around that!

God, what a gigantic post. Hark at me mrs know-it-all! I don't even have a baby who sleeps!

[Essie3]

penny my post goes for you too - 'getting into bad habits' - who cares? Do what works!

My brother slept in my parents' bed and my Mum used to get so stressed about it. It stopped when he was 7 or so. (Quite old, I know, but he was bullied a lot.)

[DebInAustria]

Love your post Essie especially "Ever heard of a 14 year old who will only sleep after a drive in the car? Ever heard of a kid unable to go to university because he has to co-sleep with his ageing mother?" - sooo funny

[Essie3]

LOL Deb.
Well, I'm just really sceptical now because anything you do is labelled 'A Habit', and Habits are Bad. You know...
co-sleeping, dummies, driving to sleep, rocking to sleep, feeding only shop-bought jars, breastfeeding to sleep, the list goes on for ever...
It was the last one which did it for me. You just have to keep thinking yes, you might create a habit. But they can be broken, and I keep telling myself I won't be the one with the Channel 4 Documentary on an adult who has a dummy and only sleeps after a long drive in the car.

[DebInAustria]

Morning all, it's my favourite day of the week (not0 - changeover day. I've been awake for ages with the noise of grinding teeth next to me - yes I was co-sleeping! Those of you whose babies have only a few teeth make the most of it. I remember the novelty does wear off but the noise is awful!

[Snufflebufty]

Hi Sponge. My DD is 9 months old now and over the months we have found that she needs her set naps during the day for her to have a decent nights sleep. We went from having a lo who slept all night to waking at 5am which then changed to something else the following week. As someone has already said, its only a phase. I have the No cry sleep solution book which I have found to be really helpful, but whenever we have a bad night, I find myself saying to my DP, 'where's that book, I'll read it and see what it says' and it is guaranteed that DD will sleep all night and settle really fast. Its sods law that once you get them into some sort of sleeping routine that something else comes along and changes everything again. We're going through a teething stage just now, so when she wakes screaming in the night, we end up taking her in beside us just to get a rest. As for getting her to settle in her bed, we have always sat with her until she falls asleep, doing all the stroking of the face and hand holding. I know some people think this isnt the way to do it, but it works for us and there's a lot of times that she doesnt need us there for her to fall asleep. Sorry for the ramble, we've been up since before 6am but I'm not worrying about it because I know she will eventually go down at half 7 and sleep til 7. Eventually..........

[spongebrainbigpants]

Desiderata, I'm not really sure how I would just "let him hang around" and fall asleep when he wants to . Do you mean carry him around, lie him on the sofa, have a cot downstairs? I would have said he's a bit too old for me to doing that, but everyone's different I suppose.

SA, thank you for your lovely post - so sorry you're suffering too, but know what you mean about it helping that you're not alone. Interesting that C was a good sleeper til four months too - amazing how it suddenly changes again isn't it? I agree with you that the NCSS is very informative about sleep patterns and I think the rising into light sleep is definitely A's problem.

Mummy, I hadn't thought of looking at the Baby Whisperer actually but will dig out my copy - I've heard of the 'wake to sleep' thing so will maybe try that. 90 min naps sound like heaven but sympathy on the night time sleeps.

Penny, the sling is a lovely idea (I used one alot when DS was little and absolutely adored carrying him) but he is huge now and my back is too buggered for me to carry him unfortunately. Hope things get better for you.

Essie, as usual your post made me laugh! Of course A won't be able to leave home without me! But I totally understand where you're coming from - although the car thing has never worked with our little monkey. We once did a two hour car journey where A only slept for the last 30 mins! He rarely naps in the car unless he's dog tired - too much to look at! (Maybe blacked out windows are the answer?!)

Btw, I'm really looking forward to the Channel 4 documentary!!

Snuffle, I keep telling myself it's only a phase - it just seems to be lasting a looooong time!

Deb, no teeth here at all so we haven't encountered that pleasure!

Thanks all - if nothing else, it's so good to know I'm not alone.

[DebInAustria]

• this morning I posted here instead of on our June thread Sponge!!

[spongebrainbigpants]

Deb, lol, it was an appropriate post so I shouldn't worry about it!

[lisalollipop]

Hello, only just read and realise you may have finished the thread but wanted to add my empathy! My 9mo DS has been very similar in the no-napping and rubbish night sleeping. I was really hung-up on the naps thing because I'd read (and it was obvious to look at him) that overtiredness would make his nighttime sleep worse. So started NCSS before Christmas and it was going ok, then he got poorly and wasn't eating so I went back to feeding him at night. Then (not-so-dear) DH left us on New Year's Day and I thought sod-it and started co-sleeping and also napping/reading with him asleep on my bed in the day. He now has 2 x 1 1/2 hour ish naps a day. His nighttime sleep is no better but at least I'm staying warm in bed and finally reading a book again! I'm not keen on doing all this forever, but like others have said here - if it works for now and you feel a bit more rested, then do it. Oooh HUGE post - sorry!