Oh God,sleep is getting worse, have looked at Andrea Grace but she's anti-co-sleeping, am I just a lightweight as baby is small...

[tenacityflux]

Hello, just started a new thread really, feeling really low. I still can't get my DD (15 weeks) to nap easily, today she was up at 8 and finally napped in the sling at 12.30, in between times I had tried her in a rocking swing I bought but no good, another waste of money, and been walking for an hour before she nodded off. She was awake then at 1.45 and I was trying to keep her awake until bedtime but I was so tired DH took her and I fell asleep and she napped between 4 and 5 which she never does for me normally; and he's now trying to get her to sleep, which we have got a bit better by feeding her, putting her in her cot awake and rocking and singing 10 in the bed - this is much better as we used to have to drag the dam thing back and forth before she'd settle, at least we've cut that out. She went for a week waking up at 4.30/5 which was bliss, but now she'll be awake again at 2, then I co sleep but some nights she won't go back to sleep at all until 4/5, other nights if she does she'll be awake every 1 1/2 or 2 hours until 8. I have been thinking of going to Andrea Grace with the last of my savings but her website states she dosn't believe in co-sleeping and says that taking her to bed will encourage her to wake, and I can't cope with feeding at night sitting up again; when she was little we tried it and I was so uncomfortable and would fall asleep and nearly drop her; she would never settle afterwards and I'd be awake even longer. I have tried putting her back in her bed and rocking her but she will just scream and wake up DH, and as he has to drive for work I'm just not happy with him being sleep deprived too. This is just a rant really, I just seem to get so depressed about things as I can't seem to get her to nap and all of the advice is about working on how they all ready nap, which she does so rarely. I have to walk for 2 + hours to get her to go off, she will sometimes feed to sleep in the day but is wake in 10 mins - I sit holding her but she wakes up no matter how still I am. I have tried wrapping her up and leaving her, I have tried repeating the night time routine but every time she will scream and scream and I can't bare to leave her, I just don't think it's right. Everytime I try something this week and it dosn't work, I get upset and feel like it will never change.

[PuzzleRocks]

Bumping for you.

[TheCrackFox]

Didn't want to leave this unanswered for you. She sounds like my DS1 - he is 7 now so I can't remember the details much, sorry. But anyway, he hated napping during the day and I
resorted to going for very long walks everyday. (The good thing was I lost 2 stone in weight).

It will change and settle down but please, believe me, 15 weeks is very young.

I haven't tried it but the book "No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley is highly recommended.

You sound a bit down, do you think you might have PND?

[lljkk]

Sleep deprivation can get anybody down, doens't have to be actual PND to account for it. I think you mustn't let it do your head in all these different schools of advice about sleep, there's no one perfect solution for all.

I find that babies that won't settle in bed usually need a lot more winding, do you think that's possible, she's sheltering a burp? Have you tried a dummy (I hate 'em too, but needs must sometimes).

[GreenMonkies]

Gosh, that sounds really draining.

I would stop worrying about bedtime etc. I didn't put my girls to bed at night until they were nearly a year old. Until this time they slept in the livingroom with us all evening, either on my lap/boobing or in a bouncy/reclining chair. We took them to bed when we went. I am a big fan of co-sleeping, it's the most natural way for babies and maothers to sleep, and as long as you are doing it safely (no big pillows, no smoking etc) it is not a problem.

Carry on with the sling (what kind of sling do you have? I like ring slings the best, they are very verstaile and easy to use) but ratehr than putting her in it to make her sleep, just put her in it, and then get on with your day. Do the hoovering, hang out wet washing, go to the shops, make your lunch, and so on. She will sit in it and fall asleep when she is tired, or feed off to sleep in it.

I am wondering if there is an underlying reason why she sleeps so badly. Whilst it isn't actually natural for babies to sleep for huge chunks of time they do normally sleep better than this. Have you thought about getting her checked for reflux? It could be that she feeds and sleeps so erratically because she is refluxing and is in pain. Not all refluxers actually posset or vomit, some don't, but they do hate to be laid flat and often sleep badly as a result.

I think I may have rambled a bit here, I hope some of it is of some help!

[MrsBadger]

another vote for NCSS

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

Like Greenmonkies I advocate not worrying about putting your dd to bed at a particular time in the evening. My dd is 14 weeks and I am lucky as she sleeps well but my older two were not so setled both had colic for their first 3-4 months and I spent many many evenings pacing/ feeding/ burping and many days going for long walks to get them to sleep.

It all seems so daunting when you are in the midst of a really draining phase of your v=babies development and if you are concerned theri may be underlying issues with wind unsettling your baby seek advice from your doc/HV.

I am co-sleeping with dd2 as I did with ds and dd1 - it is the only way I feel comfortable - dd2 is spending more time at night in the bedside cot (with a dropped side so it is more like an extension of our bed) - however I usually fall asleep when I bring her over for her feed around 4am so it is rare that she is in cot all night. You have to decide what works and is safe for you.

Look after yourself as well and accept any offers of help to get you some extra sleep or a short break during the day to keep sane - it works for me! Good luck.

[CantSleepWontSleep]

It sounds like you are trying lots of different things, rather than one thing consistently, and this may be confusing your dd. She probably needs a good few days of consistent behaviour in order for her to learn what is expected of her and when.

So if I understand correctly, you went walking for an hour with her in the sling before she went to sleep. If the sling is comfy and she is warm, then have you considered that she maybe just wasn't tired? What was she doing during this time? Calm and quiet, or screaming and crying?

I wouldn't try to keep her awake from 1:45 until bedtime, as it will most likely make her overtired, and overtired babies are much harder to settle.

You are doing great if you can put her in her cot awake at bedtime. The only way that I can settle ds (14 weeks) in the evening is to swaddle him and feed him to sleep, and then put him on his tummy (though we're currently trying putting him on his side in an Amby Nest once asleep instead), and I consider this really good compared to what his sister was like!

My ds will wake every 2 or 3 hours through the night still, and require feeding back to sleep again, which generally takes around 45 minutes. He slept for 7 hours once, and 8 hours the following night, and then woke every 20mins-1 hour the night after, so nothing consistent yet. I'm telling you this to help you to see that at this age babies can be erratic, and many aren't sleeping great. Those who are self-settling and sleeping through are really in the minority.

[tenacityflux]

Thanks everyone, she doesn't like dummies I have tried, but it's more about me holding in for her and she doesn't really relax with them; I think we wind her enough because it's not so much that she wakes up but that she doesn't fall asleep to begin with, she winds pretty well with a thunderous burp most times! I've been told she might have reflux but we tried gaviscon and it just made her terribly constipated, even having one dose before bedtime and she was bunged up so no dice. Her bed has a wedge in it as does her day bed, and I guess this may be why she likes the sling as she's upright? I think you are right, I have a kari me and I should maybe just keep her in it for more of the day? I am trying to do similar things each day, in the sling she is mostly quiet, and I guess I just assume she would be tired as she's been awake since 8 am, I was! I know she's young to have a set bedtime, but she is used to it now, as she will go off ok, it just worries me that she never falls asleep in the day. I have tried talking to both doctors and HV's and they just look at me and say it's normal and just to do what I can, or they push CC, no way!
I'm sorry to moan on, I feel so bad - I was trying to feed her to sleep today and she woke up again and I was playing with her and crying at the same time, she's so lovey! Maybe I do have PND but I'm not sure what you do about it really, and when I sleep I'm fine!
I'll just wear her and try and relax, my back is killing me but I think it's got to be the way to go, perhaps by not trying to get her to nap she'll work out when she wants to sleep herself?

[GreenMonkies]

if carrying her in the kari me hurts your back then it's probably not the right sling for you. I'd grab a bargain ring sling (like a huggababy or a freedom sling) off eBay and see if that works better for you. If reflux has already been suggested then going dairy free for a couple of weeks is well worth a try, 50% of babies with reflux improve when they go dairy free, so it's very common and can make all the difference.

And pardon me for saying it, but she clearly isn't "used" to her bed time etc because it takes her ages to go to sleep. A crib/cot is a totally alien environment for a baby, they instinctively need to be with you, the idea of babies going to sleep by themselves is very new and completely unnatural, which is why most babies hate it and have to be "taught" to do it.

Go back to basics and keep her close, bedtimes and rules will come later, right now she just needs to be nurtured, be gentle with her, and with yourself, make your life easier, it will make you both happier. (try Reading 3 in a bed, it will give you the confidence to ignore modern teachings and mother your DD instinctively)

[tenacityflux]

I must get that book, she's in the sling now and screaming about it! I haven't been clear in that the odd thing is she now goes to sleep at bedtime pretty much in 10 mins, but just no other time, and I appreciate what you're saying but putting her to bed gives us a break for 2 hours and it's the last bit of sanity I have left - I would happily have her with us all evening but when we tried it, she just gets upset and then won't sleep at all, sometimes she doesn't like the sling. But I'm going to take your advice and try and keep her close the rest of the day. I have a ring sling but I've never been able to use it, she nearly fell out last time I tried, and a baby hawk but it's a bit big for her, she cries in it - regretably I have a slight deformation in my spine which is not too bad but I always have back pain anyway, so I think what ever sling it's going to hurt by the end of the day. The worst thing about last night was not that I trieds the NCSS nipple removal thing which worked and she went to sleep, but that I couldn't fall asleep for ages, so she slept longer than before but I only got hours!!!!Argh, how frustrating!!!!

[swanriver]

Tenacity, when she is awake from 8 am - 10.00 say, is she bright and cheery, wanting to kick and play, and chat or rather whingey and temperamental? Are you having to (I only say having to in a non-judgemental way) carry her for her to be happy, or is she sitting in bouncy chair watching you and chatting to you, mobile kicking etc. Is there a play time and a beginning to be bad tempered time or have they all merged into one?
Could you just go for a walk with her facing out ie: pushchair looking at world at 10.00 and not really expecting her to sleep, come home feed her at 12.00 say and then see if she will sleep either in cot or pram (dimmed). She is older and might not need to sleep so often, even if she still needs two naps a day.
Please forgive if I'm sending coals to newcastle.

[GreenMonkies]

Oh, there is nothing more frustrating than not being able to nod off whilst your baby sleeps!

See if theres a Sling Meet near you, you might be able too try other slings and see if you can find one which does work for you. I have a scoliosis so I too suffer with back pain, but the right sling (for me, a ring sling) doesn't aggrivate it very much.

Good Luck!

[tenacityflux]

Thank you swan river...and indeed green monkies - I think she is pretty happy between 8 and 10, today and I put her in the sling at 9.45 as she was getting a little grumpy and she fell asleep beautifully....only we had to go to the doctors for me so annoyingly I then had to put her in her car seat, waking her up and no nap till 12 - but I have tried to today to keep her in the sling lots and she drifted off at 5 so I let her sleep until 6.30 and then we put her to bed at 9.00 and she went to sleep quickly, so we'll see how we go tonight. Funnily enough I think today I have reached equilibrium with sleep deprivation where I feel ok, it's a fluke!I will try taking her out front facing, she does like it, only of course tomorrow I have baby group so will have to work round that, but perhaps if I get up in time I can go early and do it a bit earlier and see how we go, if not I shall try that Saturday. I really want to post her in a happy mood and not be a moany old bag all the time, thank you for talking to me!

[swanriver]

I used to so look forward to Babygroup Tenacity, all my troubles used to melt away just sitting chatting to everyone. And the baby loved all the action. I hope they are a nice set of people and not too perfect!

You are worried that nothing will change, but look at all the things you have changed for the better already. You are settling her in evening in a way you never thought was possible at Xmas.

Apropos YOUR sleep, could you try going to bed earlier so that you just get that stretch when the baby sleeps first in the evening even if it means leaving housework and abandoning dh? I wish I had just forced myself to go to bed asap even if it was only for a short period.

[tenacityflux]

Yes, things do change, it's only a bit of depression talking really. Dh had a melt down last night when he came to try and settle her to give me a rest, and of course made it all worse, which really took me by surprise as I wanted to say 'What are you moaning for, you're never here!' But I had enough presence of mind to make him go down stairs, after which she went to sleep in seconds and was out cold; and try and explain to him what I was trying to do - he really haddn't realised about reducing the rocking and I guess that's lack of communication and that you do tend to forget they are out doing other things all day and not hot wired into your head! Last night she was awake early again and she wanted to feed for hours, she went to sleep ok at 1 but she then fed from 4 till 7 and it wasn't just comfort sucking, she was gulping it down! Is there a growth spurt at 3/4 months which could be adding to this? But at least today I went out with her and she managed 1 1/3 nap, she woke up a few times in the sling but I got her back in seconds, so that's good, and I may be getting use to sleep deprivation! I put her in her basket still asleep but she's awake and peaceful now, probably hungry!

[babyphat]

no major advice just wanted to say hang in there, it gets better. i think once they get more active they start wanting more daytime sleep. my one did not really nap at all in the daytime for quite a while.

will she sleep on you? my little one (5 months) will go for 40 mins or so on the sofa next to me but on my chest for 2 or 3 hours. i like the cuddling and it's a good excuse to do nothing or watch tv!

good luck! sounds like you are doing great with bedtime!