2 hours to get to sleep

[littleanimal]

DD is almost 4 months old and it has always been a struggle getting her to sleep. She hasn't slept in the house during the day since she was 3 weeks old. I have to take her for walks in the pram to get all her naps (1 hour in the morning, 2-3 hours over lunch and then 30-45mins late afternoon). She wakes if I take the pram back home (we live in an upstairs flat). Our evenings were hell until a few weeks ago as she had terrible colic and would scream until midnight, when I could feed or rock her to sleep. Now we have the problem that we take on average 2 hours to get her down in the evening, after a bath and feed, using lots of rocking and shushing. She's obviously tired - crying and rubbing eyes. The last 2 nights we have tried pick up/put down (Baby Whisperer) but it's just made her hysterical and we've resorted to feeding her to sleep. Does anyone have any advice on how to get her to sleep. We would love our evenings back and I would love to be able to stay at home during the cold weather!

[fishie]

vibrating bouncy chair. my sympathies, ds was like this too. if its any consolation he did get better but it was a bit of a slog. do anything that works, don't worry about bad habits at such a young age.

[littleanimal]

Thanks. DD loves her bouncy chair but it's never sent her to sleep! We've also tried a swing (loves it but no sleep), pushing the pram around the house (screams) and a sling (hated it). Fishie - how did you get things to improve?

[katherine2008]

have you tried putting her down a good 20 minutes earlier than normal with a mobile on.. she might settle down a little earlier before she clicks into that dreadful too tired to sleep mode. are you feeding her just before you put her down? my dd is four months and like yours had dreadful colic so it took a while to get us into any proper schedule. she does need my help to get to sleep (hand holding, hair stroking, covering her eyes) but usually maximum of about 15-20 minutes. you have my sympathies it's a nightmare. re daytime naps, again I find if I leave it too late to put her down then I have a hell of a time (the 4pm nap is always a disaster) and I walk her for her midday nap, but she goes down quite well in the morning, as long as she is asleep an hour and a half after first feed, and back in her cot relaxing an hour after it. good luck with it x

[cornedbeefpasty]

i sympathise...its hard work isn't it?

she sounds overtired maybe?? maybe its all too much for her...have you tried not stimulating her....pop her in her chair if she wants to be with you and let her nod off by herself?

can you bring her bedtime forward by a bit?

will she go in her pram in the flat and not be pushed?

lying with you quietly on your bed and you singing to her?

some babies love "white noise" mine all loved the sound of the hairdryer...used to calm them within minutes...

i agree with pp, do what you need to do to get her to sleep with minimal fuss, and worry about "fixing" that later....if she feeds nicely to sleep, i would let her do that. she's still tiny....

do what suits you as a family, and don't worry about what anyone else is saying or doing.

it does get better........i promise!!

chin up. x

[fishie]

bounce bounce bounce that chair until the dear little thing can resist no more. or feed to sleep.

ds just got better with age, i wish i could give you a solution but sadly not. i just kept ds downstairs until i went up to bed, we co-slept till about 9m.

[littleanimal]

Thanks for the advice. I think she becomes overtired during the 2 hours but doesn't let herself sleep. Feeding to sleep only works at the end of this time, I think it's because she's exhausted. But I worry that she's actually become hungry during this time as it's nearly 3 hours since her last feed by the time she gets to sleep! Really don't want to start cosleeping as that would become yet another prop.

[chancelloroftheexCHEQUERS]

White noise for us too here - hairdryer at bedtime and hoover while I push the pram on the kitchen floor in the day.

Tryng to get away from feeding to sleep as not going to b/f for much longer.

[Weegle]

Actually, you know what? I would feed her to sleep if that's what works. We did with DS and then gradually when he was quite a bit older he, of his own accord, just got drowsy and so he went down awake, then he was more awake and went down more awake. We would sit with our hand on his tummy but eventually HE learnt to self-settle. I really wouldn't worry about the feeding to sleep. It's so hard when you've got a demanding little thing and you're so tired, but it DOES pass, and they will learn. And so for the moment I would just go with whatever it takes to get them to sleep.

I feel for you because it must be a nightmare having to stay out for the naps - I used to just walk far enough to get DS to sleep then park him in the back garden whilst I went inside!

[katherine2008]

i put on a fan sometimes to get her to sleep, especially if her room is warm - I find ideal temp for sleeping is around 19 degrees - no more.. try putting her down a little earlier than normal.. she will be totally exhausted during those two hours as you say and sadly too tired to sleep. my dd doesn't really want to be picked up when I have missed her sleep signs - she is often so wound up that she'd rather flail in her cot than be picked up... gosh, there as pp said there is no solution but try seeing if you can get her into bed before she has gone into that 'too tired to sleep' zone.. she'll surprise you one day and it will become much easier - it did with ours x

[CT123]

Hi littleanimal. My 4 month old ds did exactly the same. We started trying to put him down at 7pm 6 weeks ago. We'd do a bedtime routine (massage, book and song) then pop him in his cot whereupon he would scream. We shushed him, fed him, rocked him etc. Sometimes he'd go to sleep, sometimes not and it would be 10pm before he'd finally go off. I have no magic answer I'm afraid, I can only tell you what we did. We stuck with it! We were strict and consistent. We'd pick him up and put him back down; feed him and put him back down; rock him and put him back down. We never brought him out of his dark and quiet room but just kept trying. We never left him to cry, just sat with him and shushed. Now the good bit. 6 weeks later he has suddenly started going down at 7pm no problems at all!! Oh joy!! I'm certain that it was our persistence and consistency that did it. Yes, it took 6 weeks and there was a lot of crying involved on all parts but we got there in the end. Just keep going!

[CT123]

In fact, your DD sounds just like my DS! We had terrible trouble with daytime naps. He would only nap in the pram or car and I had to go out several times a day to get the sleep he needed. Then a Health Visitor told me to just put him in his cot and let him settle himself - I was livid! I tried it, just to prove her wrong. He cried for 6 mins (whilst I rubbed his chest and shushed) and then he just turned his head and went to sleep! I couldn't believe it. Have you tried it - it just could work for you too? Now I pop him down and walk out of the room and he goes off to sleep often without even crying. In fact, he seems to settle better when I leave him. Again, this all took time and persistence. It wasn't easy. I have sleep cues (blanket, dark room, classical music CD) and so it even works when we're away from home. He'll sleep in his travel cot anywhere.
I hope this is helpful - it sounds like I'm bragging but it has been so hard and taken so long, I'm just thrilled that things have improved for us and hope that they can for you too.

[Jojay]

I know she may seem a bit old for it but have you tried swaddling her? It works like magic on my ( admittedly younger) 10 wk old son who would fight sleep for hours.

Swaddling, the dummy, and putting him down at the very first sign of tiredness seemed to do the trick. The more sleep he has the easier he is.

[monthlymayhem]

I sympathise my DS was exactly the same and the first 5 months were hell...the amount of time spent trying to get him to sleep took up most of the day.

What worked for us was swaddling and 'shush-patting'. Swaddle baby, cradle in arms at first saying 'ssshh' gently and patting bottom slowly like a ticking clock. Once baby drowsy keep going with the shush patting and lower into cot. Only stop once baby is sound asleep.

Once that works gradually do less time in your arms and more in the cot.

This took us 2-3 weeks, but we eventually got to the point where we could swaddle ds, lie him in cot with lights out, something soft against his nose and he would settle himself to sleep without any shush patting needed

If only we could get him to STAY asleep during the night, but that's another story.

Good luck

[GirlWithTheMouseyHair]

i'm another one with the same probs (ds is 9 wks) and we started very mild form of sleep training at bedtime like CT123 last night - took 1.5 hrs for him to settle instead of 4 so I'm just going to try being consistent and persistant about it!!

[littleanimal]

Thanks so much everyone - CT123 you have given me hope as your ds sounds exactly like my dd! Your bedtime routine sounds like ours so I think we will just have to persist. It's just so awful when she's screaming, despite our rocking and shushing. We tried swaddling her when she was smaller, but she would usually manage to fight her way out. Also she seems to like her grobag. Has anyone had success with pick up/put down?

[tenacityflux]

Again, sounds similar to me - my 13 week old DD won't nap in the day unless I put her in the sling and walk - also good for my fitness but knackering - we also have a bedtime routine and it's slowly improving - at the moment it envolves 10 mins + of marching up and down, the some time with her in her rocking crib and us dragging is across the floor, then rocking slower and slower. It can take an hour+ but has slowly come down in time. We had been starting this at 6 as she tends to have an evening meltdown which I put down to being over tired, but tonight we instead had a longer bath we me and her in the bath, and I fed her and walked about, dragged her for only a few mins and rocker her with my hand on her and she was asleep in 20 mins - this may be a false dawn but you never know. Yesterday I messed up her afternoon nap and she only had 20 mins instead of her usual 1 to 2 hours and she was a nightmare to get to sleep. We tried pick up/put down when she was younger but she hated it. She has never fed to sleep, but then saying that we co-sleep after she wakes at 2.00 ish so presumably she does then as I'm asleep too! I'm slowly trying to re-settle her in her cot if she wakes earlier than 2, last night I rocked her for an hour after a feed as she woke at 10.30, but she did go to sleep until 4,which was nice. Sometimes she will only stop crying if DH marches her up and down, which sometimes hurts my feelings when I'm low and sleep deprived but I know that's just me being daft; I'm hoping in our case that eventually she'll just wake later and later through the night without too much training (haha!) The napping is an issue but if she goes to sleep with less marching for two weeks, I shall try putting her in her bed and rocking in the day, for now I just want her to get used to day naps and if that means walking her in the sling for hours, that's what I'll do - although I slipped on the ice today and bust my knee! What sort of sling did you use, btw, I have tried a my tie which my DD dosn't like, but the Kari-me sling is the winner. It's taken a month for her not to spend all evening waking up, so I guess you just have to keep going.I'm hopping one day the hand on the tummy will be enough!(I'll shut up now, makes you into a sleep obsessive!)

[swanriver]

Tenacity that's a real improvement, 1'm really pleased for you..fingers crossed things will go on getting better. And littleanimal, I agree with CT123 that suddenly you can just GO.

[tenacityflux]

I just have to say, sorry for the hijack, but last night DD went to sleep after 20 mins of rocking with my hand on her and she slept.....wait for it........FROM 7.30 TILL 4.30!!!Ok, I think it was also because we went to baby swimming which she hated but it wore her out a bit, but yay!OK, tonight it's taken 40 mins, but she did go to sleep with my hand on her rocking her, so we'll see, I doubt she sleep as long tonight but we'll see!

[FluffyBoggun]

Have you tried a Feed- Play - Sleep routine? If you can get a copy the "settling your baby" book from the Austrailian midwifery service is great. It saved my snity at about 4months!

[littleanimal]

Awful night last night. We put her down at 7pm and 3 hours later there was still no sign of sleep (tried patting, shushing, rocking). Tried to feed her to sleep but she was just grinning and singing at me! Probably did the worst thing ever and let her out of the bedroom for an hour, then she eventually passed out on DH's shoulder. Feel utterly fed up. Has anyone tried CC at 4 months?

[gagarin]

4 months is early (IMO) to have a baby free evening esp if she is having up to 4 hours of sleep during the day.

Many dcs are up all evening at that age.

How about choosing 11pm as her bedtime? So she gets used to going to bed when she's tired and falling asleep a little easier? Then move her bedtime forward by 15-30mins a week until you hit the time she starts to struggle with going to sleep - you will then have found her natural bedtime.

And IMO she is too young for CC - BUT it is possible she needs to grumble/moan/cry on her own to go to sleep.

[trixymalixy]

Have you tried the baby whisperer shush pat method. It eventually worked with a lot of perseverence from us.

I think your DC is too young for PU PD.

[littleanimal]

I would happily let her stay up until 11pm if she wasn't tired. However by 6.30pm she is grizzling, yawning and rubbing her eyes, so I think she wants to go to sleep but doesn't know how to. While we are trying to get her to sleep she has "bursts" of doing good impressions of not being tired (usually when we pick her up or make eye contact), then quickly reverts again!

[littleanimal]

Just out of interest - I've heard cc shouldn't be tried before 6 months but I wondered why?

[gagarin]

search on here for CC threads...and put on your tin hat to protect yourself from fireworks! It's a very contentious subject.

6 months is an arbitary age that tries to reflect the development of "thinking" in babies.

I suppose the bottom line is in young babies they can scream for hours but not change their behaviour - because they (presumably!) have forgotten any consequences of screaming.

Like "I yelled and yelled and they still didn't get me up" is prob an older baby's internal world. The hope is th eolder baby will then move onto "so tonight I'll just drop off and not yell..."

A younger baby is more "I screamed and screamed...." but that is all. No behaviour change because the distress is all they experience.

Does that make sense?

And as for tired behaviour interspersed with wakeful bits - just interpret it differently. I mean it's not working is it - trying to get her to sleep so early. Maybe the eye rubbing just means "cuddle me for a bit"?

So you could psuh bedtime back and see what happens? Spend the evening entertaining her rahter than trying to get her to sleep and everyone may be less stressed.

No easy solutions to sleep I'm afraid