Does sleep advice in books/magazines assume you only have one child?

[SummerChicken]

Aaargh. My 7 month old dd's sleep has been not great but liveable-with at night and utterly appalling by day. Now it's gone crazy at night as well. Basically she was born to co-sleep and it's her bad luck really that she has one parent who sleeps incredibly deeply and one who sleeps very restlessly and both are too petrified to sleep at all when she is in the bed She just hates to be without the warmth and presence of a familiar body and always has done. She also does NOT give up - all the patting, soothing, cuddlies, spat-out dummies etc. etc. do not distract her from the fact that she wants what she wants and has always become hysterical if she doesn't get what she wants even though she has never been left alone to cry.

I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place because of my toddler (who has had problems of his own recently and really doesn't need any big disruptions in his life). He finds the sound of her crying (which is VERY loud) unbearable and if she cries at night he responds with tantrums of his own - which pretty much makes it impossible to settle her as neither will settle down unless the other does On the other hand gentle "no-cry" solutions which I've been trying a) don't stop her crying and b)take me away from him for the hours that she isn't settling down or is sleeping on me (there are only so many stories you can read...)

The end result is that I don't get any sleep by night and she doesn't get any by day. Anyone struggling with the same thing? Should we write a book on "baby-training with 2 without being too horrible?"

(sobs quietly into her morning decaf...)

[Becky77]

Such good points SummerChicken!

I currently have 1 DD (5 months) but would like to start trying for another in the not too distant future... I have been incredible spoilt with how good a sleeper our LO is and am indulging her in her favourite pass time... Napping in her cot in a quiet dark room.

I'm pretty certain this will absolutely not be possible for baby number two (if they arrive) and I do worry about how I'll juggle everything!

So yes if you write the book I'll buy it!

[SummerChicken]

Becky, am trying not to be too

You might get a placid happy one though who is quite willing to drop off on the move or in a car seat - my friend's ds was a second baby and would fall asleep happily on the playgym mid-session...

Am trying to train dd to sleep in the pram in the kitchen with curtains closed while ds and I have a quiet story session. Well I have half of the battle won as he has now accepted that he has a quiet time before going out with his books and soft music and has come to really enjoy it. Problem is,he then gets doubly upset when she cries and disturbs him. Gahhh!

[GunpowderTreasonAndLemon]

Would you be able to cosleep with a side-sleeper cot (so no chance of rolling on her, and she isn't actually in the bed?

[kalo12]

all the methods i've read assume that you have a partner at home in the evenings who can settle a baby if / when you are too tired or want to stop feeding to sleep.

although i love william and martha sears advice, they do seem to think everyone is middle class and married to a doctor and doesn't have to work themselves.

do all single mums use cry it out or end up with PND?

Have any sleep gurus ever been married to a chef and also been the main breadwinner in a family? I don't think they have

[SummerChicken]

Gunpowder that might work if we could find one that would fit in what is quite a small bedroom. Only problem is that it would then be up against the radiator and I've been told that's dangerous because of overheating. Or is that only for tiny babies- what do you think?

[SummerChicken]

kalo that's it, they don't seem to take practicalities into account and when you're a mum practicalities are everything. One baby guru I read said that you should feed your baby in a quiet place free of distractions - HOW?? And I can't fully baby-proof the house as it isn't ours, so I have to make sure we are always on the same level as my toddler, so dashing up and down stairs to quiet dark bedroom really isn't an option.

Absolutely agree about assuming that you are a stay-at-home mum with supportive partner. Not one who can't be there for bedtimes or who is unwell or has to work/go away for long periods or no partner at all. And definitely not much help if you have to be the one who works. If you are married to a chef and you are the main breadwinner I imagine you are both knackered a lot of the time let alone sleep problems as well.

I suppose these professionals base their theories on the experience of the people who can afford nannies/sleep clinics...and then there's bleedin' Annabel Karmel making me feel like a crap mum for not knocking up individual teddy-bear finger-food pizzas and sustaining milky puddings with baby in the sling and toddler happily kneading dough in the kitchen with me...grrrr! (I actually am a SAHM but am beginning to feel I'm not up to the job description these days...)

[snickersnack]

I have so much sympathy for your predicament! Ds is a horrible sleeper, always has been. Fortunately dd has never been particularly bothered by his wailing and sleeps through it at night BUT I find settling him horribly stressful when she?s around. During the day, it?s not so bad any more as she?s old enough to play while he roars and I stroke his back, but when he was born she was too small for that and I?d be trying to run between rooms to sort her out while not leaving him to cry. But it?s still a problem at night. She doesn?t want to be left in her bedroom after her bath for hours waiting for a story and a cuddle, but on nights when DH is away that?s my only option. I?m lucky that he?s around more often than he?s away, but I do find it very hard when I?m on my own.

Burn the crappy book that tells you to feed in a quiet place free of distractions, and stop feeling guilty about it. I think just as good is settling down for a feed with the toddler and a story book so things are calm. Or even turn on CBeebies. That?s what it?s for. And ditch AK. Children need to learn that food is food and it isn?t always shaped like a teddy bear. DD lived on cheese on toast and huge batches of mince that I froze and defrosted for about 6 months after DS was born (and I wasn?t working either), and she?s fine. I occasionally slung some fruit in her direction in the interests of balance, but honestly, you can?t worry too much about these things ? good enough is good enough.

Re the sleeping ? in your position, I would turn the radiator off and add an extra layer each? The side sleeper cot sounds like a great option to let you all get some sleep, but I see where you?re coming from with the radiator.

[Fillyjonk]

I was there about 3 years ago. ds was 22 months when dd1 was born.

i think the big thing is it is bloody hard with 2, they never sleep at the same time ever imo.

I didn't really bother trying to get dd1 to sleep in a cot. I stuck her in a sling-an ergo. by 7 months she was sometimes in the back carry position, making story times etc easier.

the early years are not the time of yummy mummy-dom though, honestly. you can now get a karmel meals in sainsburys-there is a reason for this!

[danidave]

Fully sympathise, I've been in the same position. DD1 20 months old when DD2 arrived - would not be left alone for a few minutes for me to try and settle the LO - screaming "MUMMY" at the stair gate while I vainly shushed and tried to feed upstairs. Evenings are worse as you say, I have resorted to taking the LO into DD1's room at night and sometimes during the day and trying to feed her (and keep her quiet) while I settle DD1 - needs back rubbing and story. Very tricky but sometimes works. Things have got a bit easier (6 months on), baby is better at settling herself (has had to be) - putting on a mobile helped, but I sometimes end up dashing along the corridor between bedrooms.

I think we're all just doing the best we can, ignore the books and smug friends with good sleepers !