The No Cry Sleep Solution???

[Lauriesmum]

Has anyone tried Elizabeth Pantley's no cry sleep solution with success? I have read the book and it sounds like it should work, but I know things can be quite different in the real world!! Ds is 6 months old and sleeping terribly at present. I have to do something and this seemed the most gentle thing to try first.

[Lauriesmum]

Has nobody tried this?

[TracyK]

I've done a combo of most books - but tbh - most babies go through good and bad sleeping stages. Just struggle through the bad times as best you can and be grateful for the good times.
ds was sleeping like an angel last week and last night he was a horror. But there's usually always a reason - so I think he must be poorly or teething.
I used to despair of him sometimes - only for a little tooth to pop through a week or so later and that was what had been wrong with him.
Try Pantley or Baby whisperer for more gentle ideas.

[katzguk]

we read the book and were interested to see that a baby our DD's age should have been getting 3h more sleep a day than she was and that she was displaying the classical over tired child symptoms. So we set about doing the first stage just monitoring her routine, then introduced a more structured one as suggested and wham bam a sleeping through child!!
i would recommend the book, even if we didn't get tothe more advanced steps. This was the first book to tell us the DD wasn't sleeping well at night because she wasn't getting enough sleep

[MrsBigD]

that would explain why dd was such a horror when smaller! She hardly ever slep during the day, not to mention at night! We had a phase where we were totally perplexed because she would fall asleep during the day for a few hours (bliss!) and then also sleep at night. So we tried getting her to sleep during the day... quite a challenge and quite a bit of petrol used, but from there it gradually got better. Now she's 3 and since ds came along 4 months ago she's been sleeping through most nights! Yippieh! Especially as ds also sleeps through (gets up at 0500 for a feed then snores happily until 8tish)

[ionesmum]

I tried it with dd1 with mixed success. She had a traumatic birth and it jsut seemed to affect her first 18 months, she was really distressed at night unless I was there. The thing is that her temperament couldn't cope with CC and I found the book really strengthening in my belief that CC is wrong, at least for some babies, and it helped me to keep going. I found co-sleeping, good naps at the same time each day, a lullaby tape and bedtime routine all helpful. Now I have a dd2 who is much more chilled and she is responding really well to the ideas in the book, even though she b/feeds to sleep. I'd give it a go.

[highlander]

I have. When DS was 10wks he started to scream himself to sleep and was very unsettled between 4am and 6am.

Through the book, I doscovered that he wasn't getting enough daytime naps and that I was starting his bedtime routine way too late, so that he was very, very overtired when I tried to put him down. His unsettledness was also him going through a light cycle of sleep so I just ignored him and he settled himself off again.

It's still a bit of a battle to get him to sleep during the day, but he sleeps through from 7pm-6:30am with only 1 feed.

I found the tone of the book nice and her theories seem to be backed up by sound research data.

However, don't expect a 'quick fix' and like all methods, you have to stick with it and not confuse the baby!

[highlander]

PS I should add that DS's bedtime routine starts at 5pm with a bath, then all the lights are dimmed, TV off and quiet voices. He then feeds for about an hour and I put him down dozy/awake with key words (he's too young to understand that but I'm hoping he'll grow up thinking it's normal!).

Pantley also makes the point that you will always have regression nights due to nightmares/teething etc and not to be frightened to leave the normal routine to calm your child.

[Lauriesmum]

Thankyou, is very helpful to hear about your experiences, and to know that the ideas do work. I have tried today to get him to take longer naps, he has slept for nearly 4 hours in total instead of his usual 2 and a bit! I am hoping this will make some difference tonight. I already have a good bedtime routine. The next, and I think most difficult, bit to tackle is the feeding him off to sleep. I am prepared to do this gently as set out in the Pantley book, but need to get some good stretches of sleep soon, or I will turn into a total zombiemum!

[ionesmum]

Oooooooooh, I am still at the feeding to sleep stage with dd2, it is driving me nuts! Unfortunately we have had nearly 2 mo of illness (colds, coughs etc.) so have not had an appropriate moment to try stopping this, although the other ideas are generally gentle enough even during times of illness. Which brings me to another point re cc, they say not to do it during illness, teething or when your baby has separation anxiety, which IME is every week from 6 mo to 18 mo!

[Lauriesmum]

Dh is much keener than I am to do CC, I really do not think that I could do it and see it through, I cannot believe that it is right for DS, I could just be being naive, but for me to leave him to cry feels so wrong. Therefore am hoping the NCSS works. Re feeding him to sleep, if he was sleeping through I wouldn't be concerned about it, but he definitely isn't sleeping through and I think the feeding to sleep is part of the cause. Hope that I will still be able to do it sometimes, as I do like it, feeling his little body relax, breathing deepen etc, it gives me a real sense of peace.

[egypt]

so what is the NCSS? feeding to sleep? cuddling? please tell me? am desperate!

[kateandtoby]

I had very bad xmas with my 3 month old ds - went from reasonable nights - waking once between 12 and 7 to waking every 2 hrs...

just read baby whisperer and am doing day routine - more naps etc and stricter night routine - she recommends pick up/pick down ... haven't mastered it but have stopped just feeding when he wakes up. Seems to be good so far - ds loving extra day naps and did a 7 hr stretch the night before last

[egypt]

dd has 2 naps a day, ranging from 45 mins to 2 hours. usually not both for 2 hours. she goes to bed at 7, has a good routine, bf and sleeps. now wakes 2 hourly at least. we may get a 3 hour stretch in the early hours and one when she first goes to bed if we're very lucky.

she is 7 months! how many naps should she be having a day and for how long according to this method?

[kateandtoby]

hi egypt

just struggling with a nap at the mo - i think she recommends 3 2hr sleeps in the day for 4 months+, 4hrs between feeds and you do it in the order of easy - eat, activity, sleep + your time. altho i'm at an earlier stage so not 100% sure of times. look at www.babywhisperer.com

she seems quite sensibe and not so extreme as gina ford

still early days for us on this but seems good - fingers crossed

[egypt]

oh, is the ncss tracy hogg then? if so i do have her book. sorry i am being dum, thought it was pantley. thanks! might give the pupd method a try.

4 hours between feeds is good. does she go into solids though? not sure how that fits in as i dont know whether to give milk with food or in between. if i give it with meals, then come bedtime she isnt ready for a bottle. if she has in between feeds she more often is, but then that makes 2 hourly feeds, milk, solids, milk, solids etc. also bottle v breast is another issue at the mo. think i am tackling too many things at once.

[kateandtoby]

yes - Tracey Hogg - think she does go into solids but haven't got there yet!! good luck - know exactly how you feel about tackling too much at once - it's hard to know where to start.

good luck

[Lauriesmum]

Hi egypt, the NCSS is pantley, according to her method your DD should be having 2 naps totalling 3-4 hours each day. She says as most books do that good daytime naps = good nighttime sleep. So this is what I am trying first. It is a very gentle longer term method than CC or PUPD. It appealed to me, and i found it a nice book to read, as it fitted in with my way of thinking about things.

[egypt]

good luck lm. my dd does have 2 1-2 hour naps a day at the moment. she's never awake longer than 2.5-3 hours between naps either, so she doesnt get over tired. strange. read a snippet of the pantley book yesterday and does indeed sound nicer. at last.! we're away this w.e so poor dd is going to have to suffer washing machine and other methods rather than a boob in the night with my mum, until we get back. then big time sleep program shall begin. unless my mum breaks the habit for me! wishful thinking.......we can all dream

[ionesmum]

lauriesmum, have you tried reading the part in Pantley where she describes what happens during CC from the baby's point of view to your dh? (I think orginally it comes from the Continuum Concept). He might be less keen to try it. I do believe CC can work for some babies but not all, and if your instinct is that it would be wrong for your ds then stick with the other methods - you know best. Good luck!

[jabberwocky]

Just wanted to say I love the NCSS. ALthough ds has always been temperamental with his sleeping. When he gets off track I have to revisit the method and it does tend to work for us.

[Littlemermaid]

I too loved the book an thought the ideas sounded great and tried some of the NCSS ideas for the first time yesterday. DS is 12 weeks and sleeps fine at night (11-8 with a quick feed at 4ish) but I was worried he doesn't sleep enough during the day and he doesn't sleep much between 8 and 11 at night.

Yesterday he had 3 naps in total about 4 hours and slept from 8.30 to 11, great we thought this seems to be working and it did until he woke at 2am and was up pretty much all night ! I had less sleep last night than I've had for months - has anyone else had this problem ? Do I just need to persevere for a while until he balances out ?

[ionesmum]

Hi, Littlemermaid, I am really not an expert on this. But neither of my babies slept much during the day except for catnaps, until they reached about 8 mo. My dd2 sounds similar to your ds in that she fed all evening and then slept for eight straight hours. My advice would be if it isn't broke, don't fix it - night-time sleep is really important.

My dd2 had got herself into sleep problems lately after a bout of illness; however, I have been using the NCSS with her and it is really working! I am really pleased and cannot recommend this book highly enough.

[handlemecarefully]

ionesmum

tell me! - what does happen to the baby during controlled crying from the baby's point of view? I need to know!

[ionesmum]

Hi, Handlemecarefully.

The passage that Pantley qoutes comes from the Continuum Concept, a book about anthropology written in the 70's. Please bear in mind that this is only an idea of what might happen:

(This is a baby waking in the middle of the night)

'He awakes in a mindless terror of the silence, the motionlessness. He screams. He is afire from head to foot with want, with desire, with intolerable impatience. He gasps for breath and screams until his head is filled and throbbing wth the sound. He screams until his chest aches, until his throat is sore. He can bear the pain no more and his sobs weaken and subside. He listens. He opens and closes his fists. He rolls his head from side to side. Nothing helps. It is unbearable. He begins to cry again, but it is too much for his strained throat; he soon stops. He waves his hands and kicks his feet. He stops, able to suffer, unable to think, unable to hope. He listens. Then he falls asleep again.'

Now, I know several mums who have used CC with their babies and it most definitely not was like that - twenty minute's crying off and on, then sleep. And in CC you go in and come out, which some babies like, rather than not go in at all as in this excerpt. But for some babies I personally believe it is like this- certainly it would have been like this for my dd1, who screamed every night for months and who just couldn't be left. I only ever tried it once and it was as if me going in gave her false hope, and then me leaving again dashed it.. I really wish I hadn't tried it. I think maybe my dd2, who is very different from dd1, would take to CC okay, but I haven't needed to try as she is responding so well to the NCSS. A friend of mine has three dds, the first two who both went really well with CC, and they thought that those of us who say it doesn't work for all babies were just being soft. Then they had their dd3 who was just like my dd1 and they realised that all babies are different, and we had a point after all.

HTH

Ionesmum x

[dinosaur]

I'm trying it at the moment - this is the first night - he went down at just after 7 and I haven't heard from him yet, which is amazing for him - a three-hour stretch! (He's 23 weeks.)