Controlled crying after feeding to sleep

[Diamond263]

Hello, I'm wondering if anyone can offer advice for my 9 mo please. She's breastfed and weaning well, but never slept much more than 3 hours in a go. I feed to sleep for two naps and bedtime, and was feeding when she woke in the night but have recently been doing controlled crying for the night wakes, with one or two feeds a night. I know I should be consistent and use the same method at nap and bedtime, but my issue is at bedtime shes instantly sick if she cries (last night was sick everywhere and I'd only been 10 seconds getting to her). So I feel like I cant do anything but feed to sleep. I've tried shh pat, I've tried just cuddling, but she cries in my arms. When she wakes in the night she responds quickly to controlled crying and will settle with a quick kiss after 2 mins but never for very long...a few hours at most. Will these night wakes eventually fade out? Has anyone continued feeding to sleep at bedtime with sleep training just for night wakes? Our routine is something like this

7am wake
8am breakfast
10am feed for nap till 1030 (I have to wake her)
12 lunch
145 feed for nap till 3 (again I wake her, how do you fit two naps in otherwise?)
A feed before tea at some point
530 tea
645 bath feed and bed for just after 7pm

Thank you for any input!!!

[ShirleyPhallus]

When she wakes again, after you’ve done the first lot of controlled crying, how do you get her back to sleep again? Do you do CC again?

[Diamond263]

Thank you @Shirley yes I do the same, I'm trying to only feed her at the 3/4am wake time. She wont cry for very long at any wake, if I hear shes not settling I'll go kiss her and lie her back down (shes normally up standing) and she'll settle. Just doesnt tend to be for that long.

[Betsyboo87]

Out of curiosity, why do you wake her at nap time? If she isn’t getting enough daytime sleep then it will affect her at night. DS is also 9mths. He will sleep for around 1.5hrs in the morning and then 1hr in the afternoon. He needs to be awake by 4pm as he also goes to bed at 7pm but it’s not often I need to wake him.

We switched to bottles so maybe different but his routine is roughly:

6am - Wake up and bottle
8am - Breakfast
10am - Bottle then nap (1.5hrs)
12pm - Lunch
2.30pm - Bottle then nap (1hr)
5pm - Dinner
6.45pm - Bottle and asleep for 7pm

Although he has a bottle before each sleep we do usually put him down awake. With the bedtime feed, could you do it 30mins or do before bedtime? Give it some time to digest and maybe avoid sickness. Do you feed her first thing in the morning (before breakfast)? To drop the nighttime feeds she’ll need extra calories during the day so this could help.

[ShirleyPhallus]

The main thing is you need to be consistent. So if you’re doing CC at night, you also need to do it for when she goes to sleep too. Otherwise she will have fallen asleep at the boob then wake up in her cot and be confused as to where she is.

I’m not sure why you’re waking her from her naps too? 30 mins in the morning wouldn’t have been long enough for my DD at that point, 60-90 mins for both morn and afternoon naps were right for mine.

At 10 months the day and night sleep parts of their brain start to use the same bit so for real consistency you can start trying to use same method for her to sleep for naps and nighttime

It’s good to give her a dream feed before she wakes up at night otherwise she will be confused as to why she can wake up and cry and be fed sometimes

But sort out nap times and wake windows, and CC at night and you should see longer stretches

[Diamond263]

I know waking her doesnt seem like the best idea, but it's based on trial of routines for us and advice from HV. I've found DD needs to be up from about 3pm before bedtime, so to fit in two naps requires waking her from the first and then at 3pm from the second. If I leave her she naps for hours!
Last night she woke 30mins after falling asleep feeding and managed to settle after 2 mins and without being sick, and then slept until a big feed at 3am and on until 6.30am which is absolutely the best sleep in ages so hopefully we are heading in the right direction! @Betsyboo87 this also meant she had a big feed when she woke too, which is something she hadn't been overly interested in before with feeding so much in the night. I did hold her upright when she woke after going to sleep last night so yes I think you are right about letting her food go down a bit even with a story before bed.
Thank you everyone for your help, you'd think with a 2 year old DS I'd know a bit more about what I'm doing. Although DS was a horrible sleeper until 7 months we were over the worst by now! Although I still fed him once through the night until he was 12 months, happy to do that just not the 4 or so other wakes!!

[GoodCow]

My DS is 10 months and bottle fed but our routine is

6-6.30 Wake Up
6.30 Breakfast & bottle
8am nap (60-90 minutes)
10.30 bottle
12 lunch
1pm nap (60-90 minutes)
2.30 snack
5pm dinner
6.30 bottle

His night sleep isn't always the best but he pretty much always goes down easily, putting him down awake with a comforter, dummy and white noise. If he wakes in the night I put the dummy in and stroke his head. If he's really going for it I pick him up and sit with him in his room until he drifts off and then I put him back down. I did end up with him in the spare room last night though as he's a bit poorly at the moment.

[ShirleyPhallus]

The main thing is you need to be consistent. So if you’re doing CC at night, you also need to do it for when she goes to sleep too. Otherwise she will have fallen asleep at the boob then wake up in her cot and be confused as to where she is.

I’m not sure why you’re waking her from her naps too? 30 mins in the morning wouldn’t have been long enough for my DD at that point, 60-90 mins for both morn and afternoon naps were right for mine.

At 10 months the day and night sleep parts of their brain start to use the same bit so for real consistency you can start trying to use same method for her to sleep for naps and nighttime

It’s good to give her a dream feed before she wakes up at night otherwise she will be confused as to why she can wake up and cry and be fed sometimes

But sort out nap times and wake windows, and CC at night and you should see longer stretches

[Nonmaquillee]

CC is cruel. Please don't do it.

[sipsmith1]

I thought 9mo needed much longer daytime naps than that!

[Ajahd]

We tried CC without consistency and it didn't work. Now we do it with consistency and its worked out beautifully. He goes down at night without any hassle, although it took about 2 weeks to get to this point. He has screamed before sleep since day 1,there was no consoling him so this was a massive step for us.

He still cries before naps (around 5/6 weeks in). If we time his wake window just right he's asleep adlfter a few cries, maybe 3-4 minutes, if we put him down too late he can cry for 10 :( I know your routine currently works, but as they get older their sleep needs change, so it might be worth playing around with naps again.

@nonmaquilee that is really unhelpful. My boy would cry for 40 minutes plus, while we rocked and soothed him. Comforting him ended up distressing him even more. He was miserable all day as well, as we're we. Once we tried controlled crying, he started sleeping better and was much happier during the day. I've now got a smiley happy boy who loves to play, compared to a baby who got frustrated all the time because he was so tired but couldn't sleep. Just because something isn't for you doesn't give you r the right to put other Mums down.

[ShirleyPhallus]

@Nonmaquillee

CC is cruel. Please don't do it.

Oh fgs. Always one

[jessstan2]

Betsyboo87: Out of curiosity, why do you wake her at nap time?
...
I wondered that too. It wouldn't have occurred to me to wake mine who had far longer sleeps (I used to sleep alongside too if I wasn't at work).

Diamond263: I know waking her doesn't seem like the best idea, but it's based on trial of routines for us and advice from HV.
.....

Health Visitors have to say something but your baby is an individual; what is important is what is right for her. How many of us would like to be woken up unnecessarily? It seems unfair.

You certainly do have a routine though with set times for everything and an early bed time.

[3WildOnes]

It doesn’t sound like she is having much day time sleep so she could be overtired.
My littlest is over a year and her routine is
7am wake
9.30-11 nap
2-3.30 nap
7.30 bed
I think I would wait until you are ready to night wean completely before sleep training as otherwise it will just be confusing. She won’t know if she is getting a feed of not.
I think it is fine to carry on feeding at night and for naps I would just be consistent with all middle of the night wake ups. I probably would do cc, I would just night wean and then give her a few minutes to see if she settles when she wakes and if not just sit next to her. She will likely stop waking after a week or so of night weaning.

[BirdIsland]

I echo what @3WildOnes says, this will only work when you're ready to night wean completely. It look a sleep consultant to tell me this, as I was trying to do the same as you, but its obvious when you think about it - your baby won't know whether she might get a feed or not when she wakes (she doesn't know whether its 11pm or 3am) so she will keep waking on the off-chance.

I bit the bullet and night weaned at just shy of 12 months. My DD took to it really well, I think she was generally quite 'ready', and she now sleeps through until 5am. She then comes into our bed and gets a feed and sometimes another hours sleep at that point.

I do sit with her when she goes to sleep now, but that is a personal choice, I like being there with her when she goes to sleep.

Good luck, the regular wakings are so tough.

[Diamond263]

Thank you all so much. I didnt wake her from her nap this afternoon although she still woke at 3pm (think that might have been DS dropping a cake tin that did it though!). I will try letting her nap longer as yes, DS was having much longer naps at this age but he was an early riser so we could fit them in. Sometimes DD isn't up until near 8am (after a more wakeful night) and then its just tricky to fit in two naps with appropriate wake times for her. I've tried shortening the awake times a bit but she wont settle earlier. Will build to it slowly! I did CC with DS and he then habitually woke for a feed at 3am so guess I was hoping same would happen with DD but if it's not working for her then I'll try to gently night wean. @Nonmaquillee thanks for your input but no, not helpful for those who feel it's the most beneficial way for their families to all get some more sleep. I am continuously there for my children, as we all are, but the nights just getting worse and worse from responding to the point where even a feed wasnt helping her settle, I think she was just exhausted and wanting to sleep.
@BirdIsland yes we sit with DS too, it's a lovely way for them to fall asleep