Will this ever improve?

[twinkletwinklestarz]

Hello lovely mumsnetters!!

Posting to see if anyone has any pearls of wisdom but mainly to see if anyone in similar situation who fancies chatting to keep us going throu this stage!

DC2 is 11 weeks old and basically since birth (2 weeks or so after) has been dreadful nighttime sleeper. DC1 also didn't sleep well as a baby and wanted to sleep on me or DH but once we got to 8-9 weeks she was in the cot and sleeping for reasonable stretches. She was never a great sleeper and would wake regularly for feeds until 1 year but I see now it really was not all that bad. Now sleeps pretty well as a toddler.

DC2 thou is another level! Born a good size and EBF.....has always been a hungry baby from
Birth and fed V regularly both day & night and putting on a good rate of weight. Feeds have lengthened in terms of gaps between but still has not helped sleep. Each night is different, some better than others but the general pattern is wake every 35 or 45 mins, or an hour to be resettled. Now this doesn't have to be with boob, my DH can settle him but when with me only really wants boob. My DH is a legend and we take turns to sleep or we literally wouldn't get any! I sleep from when DC2 goes to bed till about 11ish and then again I have a couple of hours in the morning from 5ish onwards. When we sleep we sleep on sofa downstairs.
When DC2 wakes he doesn't seem especially distressed, in fact he is a super chilled baby
And a total delight in the day!! I know his napping is not brilliant or consistent, we were militant on naps with DC1 but it's hard to get a solid routine when the nights are bad so he's tired in day but also when out and about with toddler (non UK at present so can get to clubs etc). He will sleep on his own in day and can do good stretches (max. 2 hours a go), or cat naps. Sleeps really well in buggy or car but again pattern is not consistent. His 8 week jabs put him off a bit and has had a cold which hasn't helped!

We were having to hold him at night on us to sleep for a few weeks but he goes down in cot well now and has done for some weeks now. But as I said just won't sleep for long stretches. Sometimes thou (V rare) he will surprise us and do an hour and a half, or 2 hours, or V V occasionally 3 hours! I can count on one hand when he has done this since birth, but he can
Do it! But his general pattern is up every 35, 45 or hour in cot. This is after feed and being upright for 20ish mins.
We have tried white noise, using a Muslin that we Have held to be warm and smell of us and lots of other tricks. We have a good bedtime routine and he always goes down well. In night still feeds several times, sometimes a good feed and other times cat nap feeding and then short sleeps and more short feeds! It is worse when he gets in this cycle and sleeps slightly better when he has a really good feed but this isn't always possible when he's clearly tired so falls
Asleep after shorter feeds. I do and keep him awake for a really good feed but doesn't always work.

We are holding on to the 'magic' 12 weeks and hoping this will improve soon but there doesn't seem to have been any improvement since birth. It's like he's in a permanent 4 month regression! (From what I can remember with DC1).
As I said no issues at all with him apart from this but we really are struggling with lack of sleep and having no evenings together at all. We have been chilled about it as a 'phase' and that each phase ends but there really hasn't seemed like any improvement or the end in sight! Lots of other posts and friends IRL, their babies will sleep 4-5 hour stretches.....right now I would take consistent 2 hour stretches of sleep! That would be the dream and manageable!

If anyone in similar boat wants to chat or if anyone has been throu this and has any experience or suggestions then that would be amazing! I'm now two hours into my shift of up
And down, out the cot for the night!

I also won't be able to co-sleep, I would find it too nerve wracking and also too knackered to do this too!!

Sorry this has been an absolute essay!!!!

[twinkletwinklestarz]

Oh and he won't take a bottle and uses a dummy
Occasionally. Generally more with my DH.....doesn't take dummy with me at all!

[iamverytired]

Hello! Sounds very much like me. We were getting 2-3 hour stretches and then I feel like he hit the 4 month sleep recession early and was up every 45 minutes after Christmas Eve and won't be put down in his cot! (Now 14 weeks) Slowly improving but I have ended up co sleeping the last couple of nights after his first stretch (will go in the cot for a couple of hours now but won't settle after the first feed). I don't feel as worried now he is bigger but don't want to do it long term either. Currently sat with him asleep on the boob wondering when it is safe to try and put him down again. This will be attempt 2. Will give it 4 goes and then DP is off to the spare room so I can co-sleep 😂. It feels like it will never change but I got 3 hours out of him on the first stretch tonight so feel like I'm winning, regardless of the rest of the night!!

[iamverytired]

And DP just let out a loud snore and made baby jump 🙄 gonna try putting him down now anyway.....

[Niffler2019]

Hi we're in the same boat! DD falls asleep fairly easily on us but if I put her down she will wake every 30-60 mins. Managed a few rare 2-3 hour stretches during the odd random night. Me & my husband take it in turns to sleep when he isn't working (he works 12 hour night shifts) otherwise I'd never get any sleep!! My other dd was a rubbish sleeper but she would do 2-3 hour stretches at night from a couple of weeks old so I'm at a loss as to what else I can try

[twinkletwinklestarz]

@Niffler2019 how old is your little one now? Do they sleep in the cot? I feel your pain as I can't see how this will improve!
Little one this end had a a feed at 12.30, I held onto him for 20 mins and he went down well and now up after 45 mins feeding again!!!

@iamverytired it's so hard isn't it, getting short sleeps here and there! When was your little one doing the 2-3 hour stretches? Hopefully you ban get back to that soon?? I remember the 4 month sleep regression with Dc1....thou I think we got away with it quite lightly as after a few weeks things improved. I keep thinking that the regression probably won't affect us that much this time as sleep is already bad....but I'm sure it can get worse

[iamverytired]

Up for the second feed! He stayed down again so that's 1hr 40..... Better than 45 mins 😂. He seems very sleepy though so fingers crossed I won't be up for another hour. He was sleeping 2-3 hours right from the start really, but we still had the issue of actually putting him down. He just wants to sleep on us! I think our latest problems are a combination of no longer using the swaddle sleeping bag so he startles himself and it being cold when I put him in the cot. He slept better in his pram basket the first few weeks but quickly looked too big for it.
DP used to take him in the evenings so I got sleep for the first 3 hours and now we have resorted to him taking him at 5/6am instead - generally the first stretch in the cot is the longest so we take advantage of that and put him down now. I do totally sympathise with you! I've only ever had one 4 hour stretch and one 5 hour stretch and that's when he was about 4 weeks old. A lot of it at the start for us was gassy discomfort but I've cut out dairy and recently soya, eggs and almond milk and he never lies there squirming passing gas any more! He was still 12 weeks when this all started recently so I fear the 16 week regression to still to be seen 😩

[iamverytired]

Next attempt to go down failed 🙄

[iamverytired]

Half an hour sleep and woke up to poop 🙈

[iamverytired]

And finally one more hour 😴. So that's 3 hours sleep out of the last 7 hours 😴. Hope your night was better!

[theantsgomarchin]

At this age the only thing that's going to help is a good daytime routine (in terms of feeding and naps) and trying to stretch the night feeds out. At 11w baby can start to have some set naps, typically 3. I usually suggest 1h in the morning (around 8:30/9) for an hour max (wake them if still sleeping - I'll explain why in a minute), second nap 11:30-11:45 for 1.h minimum but can have 3h (may take a while to achieve this), then another top up nap at 4/5 - length depends on lunch nap. But max an hour. Then bedtime at 6:30/7pm.

Night feed at 10:30/11pm, and 3/4am then when they wake at 7/7:30am. Any waking in between these times try to cuddle back to sleep or use dummy etc.

This of course is a loose routine but it's an example of what babies are generally capable of doing at around 10w.

Trust me, IVE BEEN THERE. But DS1 was 100x worse. When I say for the first 10 weeks he never slept anywhere other than someone's chest, i mean it. I was up every 45 mins feeding him every night, again it sounds like I'm exaggerating but truly I'm not. I was delirious from lack of sleep and was borderline PND from the stress of it. I realised enough was enough and despite promising I'd never be a "routine mum" my friend convinced me and probably saved my marriage. He went from waking every 45mins at 10w to only having the 11pm/4am feed at 12 weeks then at 15 weeks we dropped the 4am and he was sleeping 7-7 with an 11pm top up feed. Trust me, if he can do it, anyone can. But it does require a lot of dedication from you. Pls feel free to message me if you need any advice I've tried to keep it as brief as poss (HA) but when I see these posts I can't not comment as I know how successful it can be, and nobody wants to see another mother struggle.

Best of luck x

[twinkletwinklestarz]

Thank you @theantsgomarchin for taking the time to reply.
We had to do this with DC1, go militant on nap schedule, which we did from about 12 weeks until he dropped naps altogether, and it did work but was hard work.
I was hoping for a more laid back approach this time around because it's so hard to be totally focused on naps when there's a toddler running around & we're in & out at different times. BUT I think this is the only solution, so we'll have to try!
Managed a good routine today, but lunch nap was way too long! This was because we were our in pouring rain and I couldn't wake him! This means tonight has been a total and utter shit show! Even worse than normal!
I'll try again tooorrow!
Thank you again for taking time to respond x

[twinkletwinklestarz]

@iamverytired I am sorry you had such a shitty night last night.....as tonight been any better?
Last night was typically bad for us.....he slept in cot for anywhere between 20 mins a time to one hour (we only had one of these stints all night).
Tonight however has been a complete shit show! He's only slept for maximum 20 mins in cot and I've basically been continually trying to settle him since 11.30.....he is not normally this bad!! I really have to try harder with naps tomorrow but he's going to be so knackered that it'll be near impossible!
How are you all doing? Xx

[twinkletwinklestarz]

@iamverytired feeling so so tired and despondent tonight.....pretty much three months of this is now catching up on me! That abs the awful COVID situation has had me in tears on and off since 11.30pm!!!!

[iamverytired]

@twinkletwinklestarz sleep deprivation makes everything seem so much worse, I'm sorry you are having such a bad night. I never feel up to doing anything if I've had a bad night and cry easily. I have a baby class today on zoom and I am so disappointed I can't meet mums in real life as I just want to make some friends!

I took baby for a walk yesterday and that screwed his nap schedule as he was awake and crying the whole way round as he was so overtired. Managed 2x15 minute naps until 3 in the afternoon and then slept till 6, then back asleep at 7. I tried to keep this as his bedtime although he was asleep on me on the sofa, and came up with him at 10pm where he went straight down. Did 2 hours till midnight and then I think back asleep at 1 and then it's all a bit hazy - I picked him up and fed him in a sleepy state so I THINK he was down for maybe 3 hours?? Been trying to resettle him since about 4am though. I have to admit I've resorted to the sleepyhead in the cot out of desperation though - not sure what's worse, co sleeping or using that, but it cocoons him and keeps him cosy and is clearly helping him sleep 🙈. Been using white noise too, maybe that's helping.

[CatMum87]

I feel like i have found my people!! Although in actual fact, I'm really sorry that people are having the same struggles. The lack of sleep is torturous!

I also have a non sleeping, very alert and clingy DD2. And I simply don't have the time to dedicate to getting her to sleep and stay asleep with a toddler around the house 😔. I was so hoping she would be a go with the flow type of baby but she is the complete opposite! Tends to only want to sleep in the sling and the car sometimes works. Took her out in the car seat attachment on the pram the other day thinking that would surely work and well that backfired and she just would not sleep and we ended up with an over tired mess of a baby (like we do most evenings!).

We have also resorted to using the sleepyhead with marginal success. After getting her down at 4.30 am last night she slept until 8!! She was grunting and groaning a lot trying to pass wind so it was impossible to sleep through but I figured if she was in pain or hungry she would wake fully?! This is the most sleep we've had since she was born nearly 8 weeks ago! Usually it's a complete shit show of feed, rock, put down, wake up, repeat repeat repeat! X

[twinkletwinklestarz]

Sounds like we're in it together @CatMum87 & @iamverytired!
@CatMum87, have you just had her jabs done? This one, DC2, sufffered so badly for a week after with tummy issues from the rotavirus! Screaming & straining! Bach to normal now! Phew!!!!
Last night, another shit show here too! I wonder if he's hit four month regression early as he woke every 45 mins & did one stretch of 1hr 50 after a feed at midnight but was then up till pretty much 4:30!!!
I have tried again today with routine but with getting toddler out of house this Am the supposed 45 min nap turned into 1hr30!!!
Night sleep has certainly got worse since regulating naps.... hoping we turn corner soon!!
Sleep heads sound like a bit of a win thou girls!!!
Keep chatting at night if you're awake..::I will be

[iamverytired]

Had a terrible night last night, not sure if I've eaten something else he's reacting to or whether it's because he's taken to dipping his hands in the bath water and cramming them in his mouth repeatedly 🙈 but he has pooped green watery mucus x 8 since 5am. Was straining since midnight so I barely slept. Hope it's not something else I'm eating as I'm already cutting out enough! Why can't it just be easy to know what's causing the discomfort!

[CatMum87]

@iamverytired, did you manage to get any more sleep? Is he awake when he is grunting and groaning? Dd2 does this and I just leave her to it but sometimes it escalates to crying 😔. I hadn't even thought my diet could be contributing, but she is super gassy and clearly uncomfortable a lot. I applaud you for giving up all those food groups. I don't think I could do it, I barely have time to make a cup of tea a day never mind follow a strict diet!
We had another random night. DH kept her downstairs until midnight and then brought her up. She fed at 2 and then wouldn't go back down until 3.30! I don't understand why some nights she will feed and go straight back to sleep and others she is wide awake and I have to spend over half an hour rocking her back to sleep 🙄. Then the rest of the night went to pot and she was up and down and all over the place. Needless to say she is shattered today, miserable and fighting 😴.
@twinkletwinklestarz we ahev our 8 weeks jabs on Tuesday, not looking forward to that!!! X

[iamverytired]

@CatMum87 he tends to be in the process of waking up when it starts and then becomes awake and usually results in a fart or poo eventually. Lifting up his bum and bending his legs usually helps. I suspected food intolerances as his nappies became green and mucousy - have had a massive improvement in the gassiness following cutting out dairy and soy and nappies are slowly improving but still having bad days.

I know what you mean about the random nights - if he is going to go down and stay asleep it doesn't really make much difference how deeply asleep he is when I put him down. Last night was bad again , he was over tired before bed and kept waking up in my arms - went in his cot for about an hour and a half and then spent the rest of the night in my arms 😕

[CatMum87]

@iamverytired that's good to hear that the gassiness has improved somewhat. Have you asked your HV or GP about the green nappies? How old is your little one again?
I've been there with the holding them all night. And I definitely do drop off as have little dreams 🙄.

As DD2 is so alert and is a nightmare to get to sleep, I've come to dread going out or trying to get to any sort of appointment. We had her tongue tie cut today and she just screamed for 2 hours as she wouldnt sleep in the car, and was so overtired. When we were there she wouldn't feed which was embarrassing as she was too tired. Feel it makes me look like an incompetent mother. Then it all has a knock on effect. I don't want to be chained to the house trying to get her to sleep. (although with lockdown what we can do is v limited I know!).

Tonight will likely be another crappy night!!