Another sleep training thread....

[SenoraPostrophe]

I know there's lots of threads on this. But I thought I'd start a new one anyway.

DS is 8 months and not a good sleeper. In the day he's usually OK (sleeps half an hour to an hour in the morning, and has a 2 hour nap in the afternoons), but still wakes at night. I need more sleep, and I also want him to feed better in the day so I'm planning some drastic action.

I've had to do a little bit of sleep training in the day and found that "controlled crying" a la GF doesn't work, and neither does the pick up, put down method because he always cries louder and harder when I go into the room. So I'm toying with the idea of just leaving him to cry. Maybe shouting to him so he knows I'm there. Is that cruel? I figure that whatever works the quikest will be the kindest in the long run, but what does everyon else think?

Also, (and bear in mind here that we're on a Spanish timetable so dd sleeps from 9pm to 9am and I'm aiming for 9pm to 8 or 9 with ds) he always wakes between 4 and 6am and then sleeps and dozes until getting up time. He wakes other times usually as well, but what if he wakes up andthen screams till breakfast time? I usually just feed him in bed and doze with him (because I find that if I don't he often just stays awake)
He seems to need less sleep than dd so should I make "breakfast time" earlier, perhaps?

Finally on a similar subject, today he refused to sleep at nursery, came home "fried" (as they say in Spanish) and is still crying in his cot as I write - I've been in twice so far. Should I wait and see if this is going to be his new "routine" before attempting night sleep training?

tired sigh]]. We need a yawning smiley don't you think?

[Heathcliffscathy]

i did leaving him to cry (did it at lunchtime tho) and it took two days. checking and pick up put down were absolutely useless for ds, he just got more and more hysterical. i agree taht whatever works fastest is least cruel...

good luck and may the force truly be with you.

x

[SenoraPostrophe]

Thanks sophable - glad he's not the only one.

I'm a bit scared as when I did it at lunchtime I found that he'd only cry for about 20 mins (if I timed it right), but now he can force himself to stay awake and stand up in his cot...

Think I should warn the neighbours.

[SenoraPostrophe]

any other tips while I'm psyching myself up?

[TracyK]

i find that if my ds is really tired but fighting it - i either stroke the side of his head or forehead while shhhsshing loudly - or if he's too wriggly for that - I pop a bottle with a little milk in it to make him sleepy enough to let me stroke his head.

[SenoraPostrophe]

I do that at nap time sometimes, Tracey but it never seems to work at night because ds is too used to getting breast fed I think. It works at night if dp does it, but dp has about 6 months worth of work to do in the next 4 weeks and can't do nights. And he won't take a bottle!

[foxinsocks]

I found that a large bottle of wine while watching rubbish on TV is the only thing that gets you through letting them cry.

Incidentally, I could never go into mine either - it just made them worse. I think it works much quicker if you just let them cry it out in the end.

He's probably over tired at the moment and there's nothing you can do for that other than let them cry anyway.

Good luck, hope it goes well.

[lulupop]

Totally agree with Sophable, if GF CC and pick up put down have failed then you've got to just leave him. I would say only go in if you have reason to believe he's been sick or something. And then just clean up and leave without much comment.

SOunds so cruel but this is what we did in the end with DS and was the only thing that worked. And once he was sleeping better, he was SO much happier in the daytime as well. (And so was I )

I found it so hard to hear him screaming that I would get on the phone to my best friend or mother, and chat to them, as they were v supportive and made me feel what I was doing was OK.

Que tengas suerte!

[yingers74]

hi senora, I did cc on my dd recently, it took 4 nights before she returned to her previous good sleeping pattern. i was reluctant to do it but after 2 weeks of no sleep i was desperate. it was difficult and i had my laptop to keep me company while i waited to see what happened. It might be worth trying again with the cc, you can find that it improves then goes bad again before working. You do need to stick to the rules, if you can, get hold of ferber's book for a detailed explanation. If you can't then I can post a summary of the info. Good luck whatever u decide to do

[jamhead]

Just found this thread and want to say I'm in pretty much the same situation. Dd is 8 months and still having a 10pm breast feed, yet wakes up anytime between 4am and 6am and wants more milk. Won't have water. Won't be soothed back to sleep any other way - dp is fed up trying! I figure with the solids she's putting away, she can't really be hungry so we are embarking on gentle cc from now. wish me luck!

[lulupop]

May the force be with you.

[Hayls]

Hi SP! My dd is 8 months as well and not a great sleeper. She was even worse until a few weeks ago when we moved her into her own room. I started off just sitting in her room on the floor with a book so she could see me and shhing her if she cried really loudly and eventually she went to sleep. At least then I knew it was frustrated crying but not scared/lonely crying. After a few days she got the message and now goes to sleep at night really easily. She usually wakes around 5ish for a feed then I put her back in her cot (sometimes awake) and she goes back to sleep until around 7. She often wakes up either at 10 or 1 (don't know why!) but I just go in to give her her dummy and she goes back OK.

If we're having trouble in the evening we give her a 'fiddly' toy (cuski is good) or a cushion she has with lots of labels on it (or my hair if desperate!)and she fiddles with it until she goes to sleep. If she's screaming and throwing it away we just keep handing it back to her and eventually it works

Daytime naps are a different story though...

Bet you she sleeps really badly tonight now!

[amother]

Hi All,
Saw this thread and we are also having sleeping problems so you are not along. My DS is 7 months, and previously a super sleeper in the night and not so bad sleeper in the day. Used to sleep 12-13 hours solid from 6weeks old till around 6 months. Then started waking in the night (at least once) and we gave him a bottle of milk and he goes back to sleep. My parents were staying with us for 6 weeks and we also went on holiday. The daytime routine of sleeping at 9 (for 1.5 hours) and again at 1 for 1.5 hours has gone out the window. He really goes crazy now whenever we put him down to sleep unless it is in his pram. We were out and about sightseeing every day for the past 4 weeks with my parents (as they'd never been to England before) and now the've left all the sleep routines and times are all off! What's a girl to do?? Am thinking I will abandon his morning sleep and try to get him to have one long sleep at lunch. My theory is that if i can get him to bed when completely knackered it will be less of a fight. What do you think? HOw much daytime sleep do they need??? Am also worried he now has a bottle / sleep dependency as we were out and about so much in the past month or so I often used this to get him to shut up whilst in public! Oh dear, I've created a monster!!!

[amother]

Comedy! Just realised I added my comments to a thread from 2004

[lyndyloo]

LOL! I have just read it too! Wonder if all their sleep probs have been sorted?

[amother]

I do hope so....3 years on and still sleep problems?? Arrgghhhhhh!!!

[dcb]

just a quickie. we finally worked out that going in to dd just made her much worse - unless she was really going for it which usu meant she needed something. she eventually started sleeping thru most nights at around 10 mths.

she's just started nursery 2 days and isn't sleeping as well during the day when she's there - and so far (so good - hoping not to jinx it) she's sleeping better at night. i think overall she only needs 12hrs in total.

sorry - not that quick

[tiredandgrumpy]

You might also want to check your son's diet. I was told to ensure dd was getting a decent amount of protein at both lunch and teatime - sleep & weanng are closely related (GF mentions this in her book, too, I notice).

Also, 8 months is a really critical time in terms of movement development. Chances are your ds is starting to move/pull himself up etc etc. Whilst he's asleep, his brain is going over all these new skills, so when he stirs in the night, he's more likely to wake as he's probably been 'movement dreaming' in his sleep. Time should cure this.

I couldn't leave my dcs to cry, so was really inconsistent with my 'sleep training'. I did find, however, that both of them sorted themselves out when they were ready (11 months & 13 months respectively).

Good luck. Hope you get some better sleep soon. I was utterly brain dead by the time dd decided to cooperate!

[amother]

hmm interesting stuff, tired and grumpy. I only give him protein at lunch, not for dinner. Why is protein related to sleep??? Could also be related to development as he has really started to move and roll and desparately trying to crawl.

[Gemy]

I am not a believer in CC. Though the pick up/put down never worked for me either. The only thing that did, was a good routine and the "dreamfeed". That and just bearing with it. DS did eventually realise that I would not feed her til 0600 and stopped waking up. I was feeding her regulary during the day and knew she was having enough food. I know you may want some quick easy method, but sometimes you have to wait for the baby to get a bit older, and they'll work out when it;'s worth waking and when it isn't (with a little bit of help from you)

We were able to cut out the dreamfeed at about 9 months after gradually bringing it forward to about 9.30 and then that was that period over with. Your baby should nearly be ready to go 11 hours without a feed and sometimes just knowing that it is possible and that you're not being cruel, gives you the energy to power through. Go for it!

[Jojay]

I'm not 100% sure about the protein thing, but I think it's just more filling.

Did you see that TV series that was on a while ago, called' The Truth about Food'? They did loads of experiments to prove or disprove theories about food ( like, does sugar make kids hyper, answer, NO)

They did an experiment about what sort of food fills you up for the longest, and protein won - think cooked breakfast versus a bowl of Shreddies.

Have no idea if this is why Gina recommends it though, but it made sense to me

[amother]

perhaps I'll give him protein for dinner! He was sleeping through once upon a time - when he was not on solids! Since the solid thing its been a bit of a nightmare!

[amother]

didnt see the TV prgramme, but did hear about it...so sugar DOESNT make the hyper!

[Jojay]

Allegedly so........

They did an experiment where they had 2 kids parties, once where they served sugary junk food and one where they served healthy, non-sugary food.

Kids reacted just the saem at both parties.

Not sure of scientific merit of experiment, but there you go.

[Jojay]

Amother, my ds's sleep was disturbed when he started solids, due to the explosive poos he did first thing in the morning (ie 4.30 am), until his little body settled down a bit.

It lasted about 2 weeks, then he went back to sleeping til a more respectable time.

Poos settled down too