Baby sleep/routine - I'm doing it all wrong.

[Purplelady10]

(First timer, be gentle)
I'm an older mum. Waited a long time to become a mum. Finally my miracle baby arrived 7 months ago. She is amazing and my everything.
I try to do everything the best I can- bf, baby groups, blw etc but I feel like I'm letting her down daily.
I have never established a daytime nap-time routine as such with her - our days are varied with days out, baby groups, family things going on etc so planning set nap times has never fitted in. She tends to fall asleep in the car or in her pram if we're walking.
Add to this our haphazard bedtime routine and I'm left here feeling devastated that I've let my baby down.
My husband gets home from work at 7pm and obviously wants time with baby leasing to late bedtime; She has eczema so daily bath is not recommended; I have a teenage stepson living here so upstairs tends to be pretty noisy of an evening.
All this has led to us stumbling along and baby tends to nap on me from 9ish then we bring her to bed 10/10:30, bedtime feed and into her cot. When she wakes in the night I've been bfing her. She falls back to sleep, I put her back in her cot til the next wake up - I.e. all the bad habits parents are warned against doing.
We are now in a situation of baby sleeping terribly most nights, husband has taken to the spare room so he can function at work and I feel like I'm losing the plot.
Tonight she was awake by midnight screaming. I've tried to avoid bfing but she was getting so distressed that at 4:20am I gave in. She is now (5:10am) asleep on me and I know that as soon as I put her down she will start crying again.
I have read other threads on baby sleep and there are so many schools of thought I don't know which one to invest in.

How do I break these bad habits (mine and hers).
Has anyone got experience of being late to the game regarding routine setting?
Which sleep training regime is our best bet?
Any helpful advice will be greatly received.

[betterbemoreorganised]

I think you pick one based on what you want. My ds is a bad sleeper barely goes in his cot at all, is always fed to sleep, goes to bed at 10pm, we do have a daytime nap routine but I couldn’t do sleep training as the crying would last for hours. When mine wakes up I try the dummy if that doesn’t work a quick bf and then we’re both back to sleep. 7 months is young to be night weaning and bf do drop as solid intake increases.

[BetterEatCheese]

What's wrong with feeding her back to sleep? I did with Dd for 18 months, every few hours until 10 months or so and then an early morning feed around 3-4am after that.

My dp worked late to but I found that he had to just sometimes miss seeing her as it www too late to put her to bed. As she gets older 7pm or earlier bedtime will be very normal so I would possibly talk to your oh about that.

[betterbemoreorganised]

I should have added ds is 8 months and no bedtime routine and won’t be starting one until he’s older and goes to bed earlier.
I feed at about 12.30 am as that’s when he wakes then about 3 or 4 ish. I do try really hard to get him back to sleep quickly at night As if he’s awake a lot at night he sleeps in the day and the following night is a up

[teaandbiscuitsforme]

Op what works? Does BF back to sleep work? If so, marvellous, keep doing it. Don't give yourself another thing that doesn't work! What's not working is transferring her. She needs to fall asleep where she's going to stay asleep, like she does in the pram or car seat when she's napping, otherwise survival instinct kicks in and they wake up. So either you need to stop feeding her back to sleep and put her in the cot awake or, if feeding to sleep works, I'd keep her with you and feed back to sleep as soon as she wakes. Personally I'm a fan of feeding to sleep and cosleeping!

I don't think naps on the go are a problem but you can get yourself into more of a routine by keeping to awake times. So once she's been awake for 2 hours, she'll probably need another nap. Doesn't matter where do much, I've found with both of mine that once they go down to 2 naps, more of a time based routine develops. Even more so for 1 nap.

And the late bedtime isn't a problem if it suits you so long as naps are regular and her wake up time is later in the morning.

[tealandteal]

My DH also gets home late currently but I cannot keep DS awake. He goes to bed at 7.30 so DH does still see him and the time is pleasant as DS is happy.

White noise drowns out the noise of our dogs and might help with teenage noise?

[TroubledLichen]

My DH also gets home late, unfortunately this means he misses the baby most evenings. It’s very sweet he wants to see the baby but I would prioritise the baby’s bedtime and establish a solid routine. It doesn’t have to include a bath every night but quiet time, story, feed, cuddle or whatever works for you at around 7-7.30pm every night. And surely the teenager can manage to be quiet for an hour or so whilst baby goes to bed. They ideally need around 12 hours overnight at that age, it doesn’t have to be in a solid block of course and you can still feed back to sleep (if it works don’t mess with it) but a 10pm bedtime sounds very late to me. And if co-sleeping means everyone gets more sleep I’d do that too.

[Lillylollylandy]

You need to decide what's most important. Your DH getting time with the baby after work or your baby getting enough sleep? My 1Ata

[ChocolateRaisin]

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201302/normal-human-infant-sleep-feeding-method-and-development

Please read this article and the other 4 parts of the series. It’s absolutely normal that your baby wakes in the night to feed. Maybe your stepson needs to be told that evenings need to be quieter so that your baby can get to bed at a decent time and get some sleep.

You haven’t let your baby down so don’t feel terrible, maybe now think about getting a little routine in place to help her get more sleep and at an earlier time.

[vivavivaviva]

You definitely haven't let anyone down, your little one is still very little and no one would expect them to be sleeping perfectly at this age.

I guess if I was you I would focus on starting the bedtime routine. Dinner, play, bath (or some sort of warm flannel for face etc when you're not bathing), snuggles in a towel, slow quiet getting pjs on, lovely big bf and put down awake. House then stays fairly quiet.

Obviously this won't happen overnight, and you'll have to feed to sleep to start, but you'll have a point you're aiming for. Maybe watch for the next few days, what time is he getting sleepy? Aim to start a little before it. You can bring it forward little by little when you're in a routine.

Your DH has mornings and weekends etc to see dc. No offence, but if he's choosing to sleep in another room then he obviously doesn't want to spend that much time with him!

The nap routine - not quite so important for another few months. Focus on the sleep at night, as it'll help you too.

[vivavivaviva]

Oops dd not ds!

[FortheloveofJames]

You have in no way let you little some down OP. You are doing the best you and being there to comfort your baby. All of what you have described is totally normal behaviour for a young baby aswell. However, it doesn’t meant that things might not improve with some gentle changes if you want to.

We actually never had a solid rountine untill at 6 months and my DS really put himself on it, I followed his lead.

At about 7 months baby should be needing about 2/3 naps a day- and my DS would be awake for about 2-3 hours at a time. I found focusing on awake time was better than tired cues as sometimes my DS never did any at all. Also, we goes to bed at the same time every night with us 7pm. My partner doesn’t see him 4 nights a week as he works late- but what he does is gets up with him in the morning and I stay in bed and then that way he gets to see him for a bit during the day.

If you really want to get into more of a routine to see if babies night sleep would improve then I’d suggest staying at home for a weeks and focusing on when baby seems tired/takes a nap, when she wants to eat etc. You can then build it naturally around her.

Don’t ever feel like your doing anything wrong, your doing a fantastic job!

[NinaMarieP]

Sounds like you're doing it all right to me!

My LO is 7 months old too and we don't have a routine. He naps when he's tired, around two hours after he wakes up, and that's sometimes in the house, sometimes in the pram, on pillows on my parents' living room floor...

We don't have an evening routine - he had his tea at 8.30 last night as he napped from 5.30-8. He doesn't get bathed every evening as it's just too hard to fit in.

He has just started sleeping through - well, not taking a feed in the night anyway - and it has been his own doing. So I think there's a huge element of them just having to be ready.

[rebelrosie12]

Just wanted to say that it's really common for mothers who have been waiting for a baby for a long time to have this wonderful idea of how life will be. Do you think you could have postnatal depression? It sounds possible from your op.

Your baby is 7 months old. It is absolutely fine to do whatever works. If you're happy doing what you're doing, continue. Most babies will need to feed in the night, and bf to sleep is perfectly normal. My formula fed baby has 2 or 3 feeds in the night at 8months and has a good daily routine and bedtime. Same goes for my precious first born who had absolutely no routine for 16months.

You need to be much, much kinder to yourself.

[vanessa6734]

I truly just see the first year or two as going into "survival mode", I did whatever worked to keep us as a family happiest. Both DCs co slept as it enabled the most sleep, youngest BF to sleep still at 19 months and it took about a year for her to have a proper "bedtime" I just put her to bed when she seemed tired, like yours both DCs couldn't have daily baths so I just wind down the eldest with a story and the youngest has just fallrn naturally into a pattern.

Don't be led into thinking your baby has to do this or that, my eldest goes to bed fine now (school aged), he didn't "need" a strict bedtime or nap time routine, most just do this because it is easier for their particular baby, DC2 has a set nap time because if it was later she wouldnt sleep well at night and too early she fights sleep but if we are out she sleeps in the buggy or the car!

[NanooCov]

Erm, none of that sounds bad to me! Sounds like you have a lovely full life, a loving family and a baby that enjoys closeness with her family. My first didn't have a routine until he was about one. He's three now and it hasn't done him harm in any way. Current 4 month old is the same. I bath him when he gets too minging. Toddler gets a bath or shower every second day (most of the time) - has never been every night.
Fed the first to sleep until he stopped bf (he was 2 years 3 months) and do the same with this one. It's all good! If it works for you, it's not a "bad habit".

[Callamia]

I have a 7month old too. He is my second, so I have some lessons from the eldest to work from.

The main lesson is do whatever works for you - this period won’t last long. Feeding to sleep works for us, especially while he’s going through this learning to crawl and teething stage. Peaceful sleep is a bit of a memory right now. We co-sleep, but he has a cot next to the bed for the joyful day that he stays asleep long enough to spend some time in it (actually, he usually sleeps in it during the earlier part of evening before I go to bed).

He needs two naps in the day, one about two hours after waking, and a longer one in the afternoon. Someone will probably need to take him for a walk to achieve this. I definitely don’t bath him daily.

Don’t worry about ‘should’ - you do what works for you all. It IS tiring, and if it’s too much then make changes, but don’t make changes based on some notional ideal routine. You’re doing fine :)

[LorelaiVictoriaGilmore]

Sounds like you are doing all the same things I did... although I would bf to sleep whenever ds woke up. Ds started napping regularly when he was ready (maybe 10 months) and sleeping through the night when he was ready (15 months). I didn't do anything very much! Be kind to yourself and realise that whatever you do doesn't guarantee any particular outcome!

[crazycatlady5]

Please please don’t refuse to breastfeed your baby in the night. It is totally normal and no book or bit of codswallop advice can tell you otherwise, she is telling you she wants milk. I know it’s hard, but everything you have described there is a perfectly normal baby. I think it’s best you adjust your expectations and go with the flow a bit more, stop worrying about what you think ‘should’ be happening and just enjoy your baby x

[crazycatlady5]

When she wakes in the night I've been bfing her. She falls back to sleep, I put her back in her cot til the next wake up totally normal behaviour or a nurturing mother!

[Sipperskipper]

You sound lovely. You don’t need to stop doing anything. If BF to sleep is working for you, there really is no need to stop. I am no BF expert (only did it for 6 weeks!) but all my BF friends at 7mo we’re still feeding very regularly during the night. It’s very normal.

[Purplelady10]

Thank you all so much for your supportive comments and advice. In the light of day I have felt much better. I am quite sure I do not have pnd as suggested. 99% of the time I am thoroughly happy and enjoying my gorgeous baby, just after a full night of no sleep, and reading other threads where other ladies all seem to have these amazing structured routines sorted from day 1, I started to doubt myself!!
I'm going to chill out, bring bedtime gradually forward, keep boobing on demand overnight and stop stressing my head about sleep!!
I feel I have to jump to the defence of my husband in response to the comment by viva. He is a fab daddy who dotes on the baby, I don't see how sleeping in the spare bedroom suggests otherwise -he is in a high pressure job working long hours and cant afford to take his eye off the ball at work due to tiredness!! To make the assumption that he's not interested in spending time with herI quite absurd!!

[Purplelady10]

Chocolate raisin thank you for the link. I'm just going to settle down to read it now.

[DrWhy]

I really wouldn’t worry about a late bedtime, we are unusual as a country in having such routinely early bedtimes. Ours is now 18 months and has never had a bedtime before 20:30 as we often aren’t home from work until close to 6pm then have to give home dinner. He sleeps (with wake ups) until 7.30, by which time DH and I are nearly ready in the morning so it works well for us and he gets no less sleep than a child sleeping 7.30 to 6.30 am. When he goes to school and has to get up earlier we might revisit it but I really wouldn’t feel that your baby/toddler has to go to bed very early as long as they get enough sleep overall.

[rebelrosie12]

Op....youre right. Daddy sleeping in the other room is fine if it works for you. My husband had to drive a lot when we had our first and I didn't want the extra stress of worrying about him driving tired, so he slept separately for 16 m. It worked really well for us.

[riddles26]

I second what almost everyone else has said. You are a wonderful mum and definitely not letting your baby down.

I don't believe in bad habits - all the things you describe are absolutely fine as long as you and baby are happy. If you are content with feeding her to sleep in the night and her napping whilst out and about, there is no problem to worry about. Also, if baby is happy and not grumpy from overtiredness, you have the perfect mix.

My daughter was a sleep refuser, particularly during the day, and would then get into a overtired grumpy mess. I did sleep train her gently and put her into a routine because it was what she needed but if I was in your situation and baby and I were happy, I certainly wouldn't bother sleep training. The flexibility of being able to go out when you want and baby falling asleep in car seat or pram is lovely to have.

Enjoy your little one and don't worry about what others are doing. All babies are different and if baby is rested and happy, you are doing everything right