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CC on a 2y2m old. Or any other ideas

21 replies

BumWad · 20/08/2017 11:11

Not sure how it became like this.

DS was an amazing sleeper however he has mostly been rocked to sleep all of his life. This started from when he had terrible reflux as a baby (he was 2 months premature).

Anyhow even though he was rocked/cuddled to sleep he slept through and it wasn't a problem. We'd put him in his cot in his own room and walk out.

Around a month ago DS was very poorly, high fever, last set of molars coming through. We ended up buying a camp bed -marvellous idea NOT to sleep with him next to his cot (sides still up and he's still in a grobag which he loves).

So you know what's coming next right? We are still in the camp bed next to his cot. DH and myself are taking turns. He always wants us next to him when falling asleep (doesn't necessarily want rocked/but will hold our hand) and when we leave in the middle of the night he screams until we return. It's getting ridiculous.

I am now A/L next week so thinking I really need to get him to sleep by himself. But will CC work on an older child? Has anybody got any other ideas? He also gets cuddles for naps 🙈 Although sleeps fine at nursery.

I'm also dreading CC because he will be sick and it will go on for AGES.

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dementedpixie · 20/08/2017 11:13

Maybe gradual withdrawal would be better if he's used to you being in the room

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BumWad · 20/08/2017 11:22

How do we do that demented? Sit on the rocking chair so he knows we're there etc?

I know that I'm definitely moving the camp bed out of his room today so that he can't see it

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FATEdestiny · 20/08/2017 12:16

dementedpixie beat me to it. It sounds like gradual withdrawal would be better. It's not a quick fix though. You can certainly speed through it If you wish, but unlikely to be solved with a week of AL.

So the idea is based on the principles that:

  • child trusts you will always give as much reassurance as he needs to feel secure enough to sleep.
  • you gradually reduce the amount of reassurance the child needs in order to feel secure enough to sleep.


I would also introduce a comforter at the same time. Teddy, blankie, muslin.

An example (it's child led, so do whatever works for you, this is just an example idea) would be:

  • parent standing next to cot, leaning in, holding hands, reassuring in any way necessary until asleep. Once asleep stay still for 15 mins or so to be sure in a deep sleep then sneek out ninja style. Respond ASAP to any night wakes and repeat. Likewise daytime naps.


  • swap the holding hands for laying your hand on baby's chest/back for reassurance (this is easier to remove once asleep). All else the same.


  • reassure in-cot with firm hand on chest. Try to stay stationary, just hand on chest, until asleep. Movement (patting, shushing, or whatever works) if unsettled, still to just your hand on chest/back when calm. Wait in that position until asleep. Remove hand, wait to check asleep. Sneek out ninja style.


  • Firm hand on chest/back when unsettled. Remove hand and just stand, still, next to cot when calm. Back to reassure if ever unsettled. Withdraw when calm. Wait until asleep.


  • Firm hand on chest to initially settle and just stand by the cot and wait until asleep. Leave once asleep. Return quickly for any night wakes and repeat same process.


  • Firm hand to settle, stand a half turn facing side-on to cot (rather than facing cot). Wait until asleep then leave.


  • Settle as normal, then wait by the cot but facing the door. Return to firm hand on chest to settle if needed, always withdraw back up the GW steps once calm.


  • Settle as normal, then take a step towards the door. Just one step. Wait there until asleep. Don't try seeking out early, before asleep. That will just destroy the trust that you'll always give as much reassurance and child needs. Staying until asleep is something that the child needs to trust you'll do. Otherwise he'll learn to fight sleep in order to keep you there.


  • Settle settle in cot, walk to doorway. Face cot and wait in doorway until asleep. Walk back in, hand on chest if unsettled. Withdraw to doorway when calm. Wait until asleep.


  • Settle in cot, wait by door to ensure settled. Create a quick (60s) job to do. "Im just going to put this in bathroom, be right back". Quick go and come back. Then wait. Back in if calked, withdraw when calm.


  • settle, withdraw to doorway, busy yourself upstairs. Keep popping back to doorway constantly. Close door once asleep.


  • settle, leave room but leave door open. Back in as soon as needed. Withdraw when calm. Close door when asleep.


  • settle, leave room, close door, Hoover listening at closed door. Any noise or grumble, open door and check ok. It's reassurance that even with door closed, you are right there to respond as soon as needed.


  • settle, leave, close door, Hoover upstairs for 15 minutes


  • settle, leave, close door, done.


Smile
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Acorncat · 20/08/2017 13:04

Any particular reason why you can't just stay while he falls asleep? I suppose I'm doing very gradual retreat with my almost 3yo in that I just sit next to his bed now rather than feeding and lying next to him like I used to. If he wakes in the night I just go through and reassure him that I'm here and sit while he falls asleep again.

I like it, he's now telling me little snippets about his day as falling asleep and I hope it continues.

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BumWad · 20/08/2017 13:15

Thank you for your prompt replies!

Faye that sounds lovely but in honestly I'm not sure I have the patience for it. It will take forever right?

Acorn I don't mind staying with him whilst falling asleep. It's the numerous night waking that are really starting to bug me as both me and DH work.

Faye - do you think CC will work?

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BumWad · 20/08/2017 13:16

Arse - I mean FATE

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Mushroomburger17 · 20/08/2017 13:26

We left ds to cry. It took about 3 nights I think, definitely not more than 5. Its stressful but if you've reached the end, and have other dc, then that's it. They will always push for more of you. I have 2dc and they are great kids and great sleepers now. No issues with attachment or confidence, they're very happy and outgoing. We're very loving and I give plenty of reassurance but bedtime is bedtime. Theyve got lovely bedrooms and really enjoy their private space.

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FATEdestiny · 20/08/2017 13:32

do you think CC will work?

At 2 and a bit, I don't think so. Mainly for physical development reasons.

I think my DD at that age would have been more than capable of throwing herself over the cot sides and onto the floor, if wanting to express how upset/angry/frustrated she was.

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Mushroomburger17 · 20/08/2017 13:47

Yeah maybe take the cot sides off first and big him up as he's now a big boy etc. New quilt cover etc. Start to make the transition.

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BumWad · 20/08/2017 14:20

Eeek

I thought it might have been easier to sleep train him before taking the sides off the cot

He's a master manipulator at bed time too -
An extra book, an extra car to hold, he hasn't got the right muslin, he wants his dad when I'm trying to put him to sleep and vice versa, he wants milk and so on. Anything but go to sleep!

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Mushroomburger17 · 20/08/2017 14:27

They're all like that, but there has to be an end at some point and the child has to know that you mean it. Just make sure he's safe and leave him to it, although you may have to ease him in a bit as you have been so hands on.

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BumWad · 20/08/2017 14:44

Thanks Mushroom

You are spot on we are going to have to leave him to it and just keep popping him and reassuring him. If we don't do it now it'll never get done. It's kind of out of control at the moment.

Wish me luck I will let you all know how I get on!

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2014newme · 20/08/2017 14:48

I think he's too old for cc
I'm sympathetic as I had twins two months premature and one of them had dreadful reflux however we never rocked to sleep and ours were brilliant at going to sleep by themselves, put them down, leave room, done. They were in a good routine from nicu
I think you need to do some research on other options and perhaps get some help in
Good luck

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2014newme · 20/08/2017 14:49

@mushroomburger17 no they aren't all like it!

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GetOffTheTableMabel · 20/08/2017 14:54

I think Fate has given you some excellent advice. I did a similar thing only adapted to suit my own personality because it is crucial to be consistent. Really think about your child's temperament, your temperament, your household routines and layout. There was a step down into my daughter's bedroom which meant I could sit on it but only my feet could be seen by her, the rest of me was behind the door so I could repeat my mantra in relative calm. Not standing up, but sitting with a cup of tea (or some wine) was important to me. I'd have got impatient and probably slacked off/given in if I was standing around. I needed to settle in for as long as it took.
I also needed a 'mantra' - I basically bored dd to sleep, I didn't necessarily use the same words every night but whatever phrase I picked was the only thing I would say to her all evening once she was in bed. It would be something like "shush, settle down, you're not on your own, I'm just here but it's time to snuggle up now".
It can help to avoid the phrase 'go to sleep' because no child can actually comply and do that on demand and it can create anxiety. The behaviour you are requiring isn't sleep it is to be in bed, head on the pillow, lying quietly. In the end, dd quite quickly learned that I would come immediately if she cried out but that I would then be boring as hell so she was safe and might as well not bother. Good luck op.

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Mushroomburger17 · 20/08/2017 16:19

Well at some point I DO think that most kids go through the I want a drink, I need a wee, I just need to get this toy from downstairs phase.

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2014newme · 20/08/2017 20:47

Yes mushroom but that's totally different from being rocked to sleep

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Mushroomburger17 · 20/08/2017 20:52

He's a master manipulator at bed time too
An extra book, an extra car to hold, he hasn't got the right muslin, he wants his dad when I'm trying to put him to sleep and vice versa, he wants milk and so on. Anything but go to sleep!


I was replying to the op when she said the above. Give me a break. Jeez.

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BumWad · 20/08/2017 22:24

Well I should have listened to Fate.

It was awful, and DS climbed/fell out of his cot around 17 minutes into CC after also being sick at around 5 mins.

He was very very distressed Sad and I'm still feeling terribly guilty putting him through that.

He got a big cuddle off me and fell asleep pretty quickly. Must have been so worn out from it all.

Looks like it's gradual retreat.

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FATEdestiny · 21/08/2017 09:00

Sad

If it was me, I'd write off any ideas of sleep training for a couple of days and go back to sleeping in the camp bed until mid week, just to get over and forget about the distress.

Then start again once everything has calmed down with gradual withdrawal. You don't have to do it as slowly and gradually as my description there. You could skip through the steps at a much faster pace. It might mean more distress, but at 2yo we are not talking about a helpless baby here. Plus you would be right there comforting through any upset.

Have a read through the opening post here for more ideas:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/1394888-What-worked-for-us-Hope-this-helps

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BumWad · 21/08/2017 10:45

Thank you so much Fate, excellent advice as always

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