Nightmare bedtimes for 13 week old - what am I doing wrong?

[sunnyfields25]

Hi folks. Bedtime has become quite a stressful, upsetting event in our house, and I'm hoping that if I describe the usual situation, someone might be able to suggest where I'm going wrong. I'm finding it difficult to take a step back and get a clear overview. Sorry if this is a long post...

DS is nearly 13 weeks old. For the past few weeks we have been doing a bedtime routine of BF, bath, BF, crib. The crib is upstairs but we have a video monitor and check on him every 5-10 minutes. We have had an occasional evening where we do the whole routine and put him down to sleep without any tears. Just give him his dummy, have several re-insertions, then he's asleep in less than 30 minutes. But that doesn't happen very often. The norm is for him to start crying towards the end of the routine (normally after getting out the bath), cry while getting dressed, feed, then cry as soon as he's put down in crib. There can then be an hour or more of trying to settle interspersed with crying. DH and I are happy to hold him for a bit to settle him, and I would never leave him to cry, but we'd like him to be able to fall asleep with us right next to him soothing him, rather than in our arms, as we were getting into the dangerous situation of DH and I nodding off to sleep while holding DS.

DS generally settles quite well during the day. He has daytime naps downstairs in his Sleepyhead (with dummy), or if we're out and about he sleeps in his car seat or pram. He tends to have long naps in the morning but they dwindle as the day goes on. Sometimes on a bad day I'll have to put him in a carrier to ensure he gets some sleep. But in his Sleepyhead he will happily nod off while sucking on his dummy. He doesn't seem to care whether I'm there or not (but I loiter nearby to keep putting dummy back in when he accidentally drops it). I'm mentioning this because his daytime sleep is so wildly different to his bedtime sleep. You'd think it was a different baby. Daytime naps = happy with no tears. Bedtime sleep = unsettled with lots of crying.

So.... I need to figure out what we're doing wrong at bedtime. It happens at a different time every night, because we basically start the routine whenever DS wakes up from his final nap of the day and it's somewhere in the region of bedtime. So for example last night it was 6.15pm, but on other occasions it has been 7.45pm. It has seemed to work best when we've been putting him to bed at about 8.30pm, and I do wonder if we're sometimes trying to put him to bed too soon. I am more than happy to let DS dictate his bedtime, but in practical terms I'm not sure how to do that. If he wakes up at 6.15pm, and we treat that as another awake period followed by just a nap, then bedtime would be ridiculously late.

Once DS has finally gone to sleep I normally do a dreamfeed between 10.30 and 11pm. Not sure if that's the right thing to be doing as he's quite squirmy afterwards and occasionally wakes up, but once back asleep he does then tend to last until 6-7am.

I just want to make bedtime a nice, pleasant experience for him, and hate the fact that at the moment there are so many tears. It would also be great to get a little bit of evening back so that DH and I have time to eat our tea and have a bath ourselves!

Sorry once again for the rambling post. Any comments/suggestions greatly appreciated

[NapQueen]

I didnt bf but from friends who did they often spoke of feeding on and off through that whole 6-10pm period. Cluster feeding. Could it be that he js hungry?

[littlemisssweetness]

What's his sleep schedule like in the day? It may be something there that needs adjusting rather then bed time routine x

[sunnyfields25]

Hi NapQueen, I wondered that initially but I don't think it can be the case. I try to feed him both before and after his bath (right before putting him down to sleep) but he's not very interested. He feeds a little bit but not a proper full feed. I assume because it's not been very long since his previous feed (he only has short naps in the evening).

[shivermytimbers]

Dont know if any of this would be helpful, but here are the things i would consider...
Daytime naps (too many or too few or at the wrong times)
Getting up time in the morning (too early/ too late)
Had enough milk during the day
Wind

Some babies just find it difficult to sleep though. Dd was a nightmare, ds1 and 2 were brilliant. Good luck!

[HT85]

Sleep patterns change constantly in the first few months. Can you keep baby downstairs with you?

[LottieDoubtie]

I would stop trying to do 'bedtimes' and let him stay downstairs with you, sleeping as/when he wants during the evening and taking him up when you go up.

Try again with 'bedtime' at six months ish and see how you get on. I think it's just too early.

[MainGrain]

Do you check for tired signs before putting him down? Perhaps hes over tide or not quite there yet.

Or perhaps it's the change in sleep environment? If he's used to and naps well in the sleepyhead could you place him in it inside the crib?

[kingfishergreen]

I think at 13 weeks DD was still with us all the time. So we'd have bath, feed, bed (in Moses basket in living room), where she'd sleep on and off (waking for a cuddle/feed every so often) until we went to bed (at 11) and then come through with us and sleep in her crib most of the night.

It wasn't until she was five or six months old that we started putting her down in her crib at 19:30, and expecting her to sleep.

Mind you, she was a real napper until five months, still napping every 1.5 hours, she only cut down to three, and then two, naps a day between six and ten months.

Either way, the routine is important, but don't expect them to understand it. In my experience a routine at 13 weeks is just laying the groundwork for when they're a little older.

[MainGrain]

*tired damnit.

DD is the same age and day naps are random but always in the bassinet. "Bedtime" can be anywhere from 9 - 11pm depending on her but she will sleep till 6am ish. We pop her down and in a sleeping bag after 2 yawns or obvious tired grizzles. She tends to fuss or yell (not cry) for 5 minutes before falling asleep.

[Changerofname987654321]

Its normal. Your baby is crying because they need you.

[LookAtAllTheBullshit]

It could be the bath.
My two couldn't have a bath as part of the bedtime as they loved the water and it made them more awake and alert.

[missymousey]

DS bedtime routine has been similar to yours since he was 3 weeks old (he's 18 weeks, bedtime is between 7 and 7,30) and we had a difficult patch about 13 weeks too. We started reading him a book after putting him in the cot, which he really seems to enjoy, and also switched from swaddling to sleeping bags since he was fighting the blanket by then. Happy bedtimes once again!

Each to their own but I definitely wouldnt start keeping him downstairs with you, it seems nicer to give him the opportunity for a proper night's sleep.

[RaeSkywalker]

We stopped evening baths until DS was about 4 months old. I think he found them massively overstimulating and used to cry and cry. He was fine as a newborn, but that suddenly changed at about 2 months old. I used to do them as pet of 'play time' during the day. We reintroduced them as part of bedtime at about 6 months- and it's been fine since.

I'd also say that DS wasn't put down at night in a crib without us in the room until he was much older than your DC. Might be worth just bringing them back downstairs with you?

[RaeSkywalker]

Sorry, that should be "when DS was about 4 months old"

[OoohSmooch]

Our baby is 4 months old and takes a while to settle (same dummy popping out issue too!). Ewan the Sheep has been amazing to get her to nod off....

www.johnlewis.com/easidream-ewan-the-dream-sheep/p231141258

It has a few settings but the main sounds are a heartbeat and waves (all to mimic the womb).

I'd say that the later nap is probably too late, he's just not tired when you then put him down.

One way our baby will nod off is if I'm just in the room with her, her crib isn't next to my bed but I stay in the room playing on my phone (also making sure room is as dark as possible) and she'll eventually nod off!

I'd also say that checking on him every 5-10 mins even though you have the monitor is a lot, maybe upgrade your monitor so you can see his breathing as this may disturb him.

[Oly5]

13 weeks is tiny. All three of mine have still been downstairs with us at that stage. The. They go up to bed with us. Around 5 months we start an earlier bedtime routine.
I think you're making your baby stressed for no reason. The crying is normal at this age and there is nothing wrong with holding your baby to sleep at this age. Most people are rocking or feeding their baby to sleep at this age - regardless of what they claim!

[ICanTuckMyBoobsInMyPockets]

Isn't he just too small for a bedtime routine?

My 14 wo wouldn't entertain a bedtime routine, he just falls asleep wherever we happen to be holding him, then he gets a final feed and put into his crib when we go to bed.

Give it up and try again in a few months.

[FATEdestiny]

Is baby in the sleepyhead upstairs? Or is that only downstairs?

I would take the sleepyhead upstairs with you at bedtime, if you don't already. If the sleepyhead won't fit in your crib (I'm unsure of its size), you can remove one side off most full sized cots. Wedge it up to your bed and you have a full size cosleeper cot.

[YouAndMeAreGoingToFallOut]

Yes I agree with others that he's probably just too small for a routine like that. When my DD was that age she stayed with us all evening and we all went to bed together. Actually, my husband used to put her in a sling after a feed at about 6pm, and she'd sleep there all evening and then feed again at about 10pm. We didn't start nightly baths and putting her to sleep on her own until she was about 7 months (she turned 6 months just around Christmas so everything was a bit too chaotic to get started right then).

[sunnyfields25]

Wow thanks everyone for the replies, I wasn't expecting so many posts so quickly! The gist of what most people are saying is that DS is too young for this routine, so that's got me wondering now if we need a radical rethink. A few books and websites I've read have said that at this age we should be expecting to see a pattern with daytime naps, and introducing a consistent bedtime and routine, and the fact that it's not working is causing the pressure to mount. I am generally a very organised person who likes routine, and the thought of not having one freaks me out. But I want DS to be happy and relaxed (not a stresshead like me!) and I certainly don't want to impose something on him that he doesn't want. I think what's spurred me on is the fact that he does seem to enjoy his bath, and on occasion the whole routine has happened without any fuss and has resulted in him settling well. So I know it has the potential to work.

littlemisssweetness - it's a good question you ask about his daytime nap schedule, but I'm afraid he doesn't really have one! Other than tending to nap for long-ish chunks in the morning (1.5 hour naps) and not so long in the afternoon (30-45 mins) it's all over the place! The only constant is that when he wakes I feed, change nappy, have playtime and then after an hour, when he's sleepy, start settling him for another nap. It would be great if he napped at roughly the same time every day. I don't really know what I should be aiming for though, and don't like the thought of waking him up if he's having a good nap.

MainGrain and FATEdestiny - Sleepyhead naps are only downstairs as unfortunately it won't fit in the crib and we don't yet have a cot (and wouldn't fit it in our bedroom even if we did). It's a shame as DS settles better in it.

LookAtAllTheBullshit and RaeSkywalker - good point about the bath, and the fact that it might be overstimulating. I might try giving him a bath during the day at some point, and skipping it in the evening, just to see if it makes any difference

Oly5 - it's not that I'm necessarily against holding or rocking DS to sleep. But we have the combined problem of me having back issues, and both me and DH being so tired sometimes that we've nodded off while holding DS. We know how dangerous it can be to fall asleep while holding a baby, and when I came downstairs recently to find DH asleep and DS's face worryingly close to a cushion, it scared us enough to stop doing that.

Hmmm. I do like the idea of the routine, even if it's just to get him used to it for a bit later on when he'll understand that bathtime is followed by bedtime. But I'm now wondering if after the bath etc we should be bringing him back downstairs. I was worried it would confuse him though, to have his bedtime routine and then come back down to the living room.

[Changerofname987654321]

The only thing that is going to confuse him is being away from Mummy and Daddy and at such a young age it is not safe for a baby to be sleeping in a room on their own.

[HT85]

The problem with the 'books' is that the baby hasn't read them in the womb so doesn't know to follow suit trust your gut. The best advice someone gave me when I was pregnant was don't read any books! You can still have a bit of structure but babies aren't robots, at that age you can't decide when baby should be tired etc. Why not still do bath, maybe a nursery rhyme/book and then settle downstairs in sleepyhead at your desired time if baby is tired? Then feed/snuggle whenever baby wakes and resettle?

[YouAndMeAreGoingToFallOut]

I very much remember feeling really anxious about not having a "proper" routine, and feeling that absolutely everyone else had one, and a pressure that if we didn't get it sorted early maybe she would never sleep! But it really was fine.

[sunnyfields25]

Haha yep my mum keeps reminding me of the fact that DS hasn't read the books. My mum was saying how she just had one book when she was pregnant, and all her info came from that one source. No internet etc. It sounds nice and simple, and got me wishing I hadn't bothered reading so many books!

In theory the idea of doing the routine then settling downstairs sounds like a good one. The main issue could be that DS will wake up when we move him upstairs, and may then take ages to re-settle. I'm also concerned it may prompt him to wake up more throughout the night. I think we've got it pretty good at the moment, with him sleeping from dreamfeed to 6/7am. And it would be DH who would keep getting woken up as I'm having to sleep in a separate room (long story - I've had anxiety-related insomnia for many years and just can't sleep through DS's little noises, even with earplugs in). I suppose the only way to know though is to give it a try and see what happens

[sunnyfields25]

Thanks YouAndMeAreGoingToFallOut - that is EXACTLY how I feel. And it's good to hear that not having it all sorted now doesn't mean it will forever be a nightmare.