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14 month old sleep

(22 Posts)
Timetogrowup2016 Tue 25-Apr-17 17:06:20

Naps are awful.
Dd has taken 20-45 minutes naps from birth. 30 minutes is the normal.
She had 3 weeks of 1 hour plus naps naps and now we're back to one shitty 20-30 minute a day.
Everyone says babies link sleep cycles when developmently ready,
So how come my dd bar 3 weeks of her life can't take a nap longer than 45 minutes?
Today she has had 15 minutes since 5:30am.
And she's not happy on it.

FATEdestiny Tue 25-Apr-17 18:56:14

A child does need to be developmentally ready, in that as much sleep training as you like done before the child has made the development keep will make no difference to short naps.

That said though, in my experiences I've always actively taught baby to extend naps. I have no experience of doing nothing and naps just getting longer, although I have read on here others saying they did that.

My methods for extending naps are not as useful in an older baby. I have always kept naps in the bouncy chair and been relentless in bouncing to keep baby asleep until baby routinely stays asleep longer than an hour. But my bouncer has a 6 month max age (I might have continued using until 7-8m, but not much more), so this was always something done when baby was still young.

In an older baby like yours, pushchair pushing might give a similar outcome. Or wake to sleep - whereby you resettle baby back to sleep as soon as the very beginning of waking happen, or ideally just before.

How is baby going to sleep? Does she cry or actively do anything to go to sleep?

Is baby getting enough sleep overall? Perversely, a baby getting plenty of sleep is more likely to have longer and better quality sleep as a result of being well rested. An over tired baby is more likely to have shorter naps and sleep more lightly, so wake easily.

To counter this keep short naps as frequent as possible. But ideally, you could do with being proactive and working hard to help baby with a resettling-to-sleep technique.

What are the timings of her sleeps currently?

HomityBabbityPie Tue 25-Apr-17 19:48:53

Have you had her checked by a paed in case something is physically the matter?

Is she generally content?

Timetogrowup2016 Tue 25-Apr-17 19:57:26

Yes that makes sense.

I totally see where your coming from.

1. She has a dummy to go to sleep and she cuddles a little blanket thing. Also noticed she throws her head side to side as well when going to sleep.

2 .when she's not exhausted and better rested. She doesn't cry to sleep. It a case of in cot with dummy and she's normally babbling for a while and rolls over and sleep .
When she's past exhausted she cries to sleep.
Today I stood by her cot for an hour. Every time she moved. Layed her down. Shhh, firm hands etc. she didn't give in. Cried the whole time.
At which point I was loosing my control a bit and walked away for ten minutes.
On my 3rd nap attmwpr she gave in and slept 15 minutes.

She sleeps around 12 ish Hours a night but the last few nights it has been around 9 hours only.

When she sleeps at night properly she can handle the lack of naps a lot better.

Timings of her sleep.
6pm-7am sleep. But recently that has been 8pm-5:30am sleep.

Naps. Well . It's hard to say as their is no routine to them despite my best efforts.

Re push chair naps.
I've walked for two Hours loads of times and she won't sleep. Cried the whole time. Same if I push back and forth in the flat.

Timetogrowup2016 Tue 25-Apr-17 19:58:41

Generally not content.
Have been referred to a pead but am awaiting appointment.

My gut says she's just absolutely exhausted though as when she gets enough sleep she's a happy, joyful baby

HomityBabbityPie Tue 25-Apr-17 20:05:25

I only ask as my friends dd sounds v similar - couldn't sleep but was hysterical on it, not happy at all and it didn't improve as she got older. It turned out she had recurrent UTIs. They presented no outward symptoms.

Worth looking into.

HomityBabbityPie Tue 25-Apr-17 20:13:06

Sorry, forgot to mention - how much water does she drink?

Timetogrowup2016 Tue 25-Apr-17 20:17:50

Water .

She only has milk in thr mornings about 6 oz

And drinks about 7 oz a day of dilute squash

HomityBabbityPie Tue 25-Apr-17 20:19:53

Ah enough then.

I'd get the uti thing looked at if I were you. It's a common cause of unexplained irritability especially in girls.

Friends dd would sleep better when she had the odd week where it wasn't bothering her, and then she would be happy, leading my friend to think the issue was overtiredness. UTIs weren't diagnosed til 3.5!!!

FATEdestiny Tue 25-Apr-17 20:58:09

Definitely worth checking for medical causes. Water infections and ear infections have few outward symptoms, just pain. Also the obvious one - teething. You are right in the middle of cutting molars territory.

It sounds like your DD doesn't handle light sleeping very well. When you get the timing right at bedtime, she probably goes from awake to deep sleep quickly then sleeps deeply all night and hence rarely wakes.

On the rare occasion she does wake in the night, I'm guessing she's difficult to get back to sleep? It's because she's not tired enough to go quickly into a deep sleep, and isn't tolerating the light sleep phase.

Daytime naps are always going to be less deep sleeping than night sleep, which may explain her struggle with going to sleep and also staying asleep in naps.

Sounds like your answer will come in understanding her fine balance between being very tired but not over tired.

The more tired she is, the quicker she'll go into a deeper sleep. But as soon as you cross the line into over tired, then she'll get restless and it all gets messy and stressful.

This is a bit alien for me, I'm talking hypothetical here. I am used to working from the angle of getting baby to sleep at the "just tired" point, with a gentle lead into light sleep and then leaving baby to go from light to deep sleep themself.

In your DDs case, you want to skip as much of the light sleeping phase as possible. She wants to be so tired when she goes in the cot that she drops into a deep sleep quickly. (Like my husband, snoring as soon as head hits pillow).

But... If you keep her awake too long, you will end up with a screaming battle. So it's a fine line.

Given all that waffle, how about keeping her active and awake longer than you have been during the day.

You know her better than me. It's about finding the point where she's past tired and into the very tired phase, but before over tired. That's going to be a difficult thing to balance but once you find a routine that works, stick with it.

If she has a good night, try for a single lunchtime nap. If she hasnt slept well over night, try for 2 naps with, say, 3h awake time. These are all just me guessing, you will know better the timings that will work. If 3h awake is making her over tired and fight the nap too much, try 2.5h. It will all be trial and error.

Timetogrowup2016 Wed 26-Apr-17 06:38:46

Thank you .

This makes absolute perfect sense and sounds exactly like my dd .

So last night she slept 6:15pm-6:50pm and then slept 8:15pm-6:30am .
That first bit of sleep was light sleeping and that's generally how long how naps are .

I've also noticed she sleeps lightly on her back. She can only get into a deep sleep on her tummy. She does this her self. I always put her down on her back . If I layed her down on her belly my self shed only sit her self straight back up from her belly .

FATEdestiny Wed 26-Apr-17 13:45:47

It's not a terribly healthy sleep habit long-term. In the blink of an eye she'll be 5 and starting school, 8 and falling out with her best friend, 11 and feeling anxious over her SATS... and all the other millions of things that make it temporarily harder for children to get to sleep.

If she finds it difficult to fall asleep generally, she'll struggle much more when something extra makes sleeping difficult.

So once you sort this and get a routine that works, rather than sitting back and thinking "ah thank God she's sleeping better now", i'd start focusing on teaching her healthier sleep habits by putting her down slightly earlier each time.

Dont stsrt until you've found a routined time that works for her naps, so she goes to sleep peacefully without crying. Then start putting her down 5 minutes earlier. Then 10 minutes, then 15 minutes and so on.

Timetogrowup2016 Wed 26-Apr-17 15:06:51

I absolutely agree with that.
She's sleeping because she's exhausted ans can't stay awake any longer isn't she ?!
I'm a first time mum and I've made mistakes with her sleep which I can see how and things I would of done differently but obviously I can't go back.

This is how today I went.
Up at 6:30.
Yawning and eye rubbing at 8:30am. Whinging started.
12:30 I put her down. Eventually at 12:55pm she fell asleep. I layed her on her belly. Patted her bum ans she went off until 2:15.
So 1 hour 20.

Now I have another question.
I was fully expecting her to nap until 2-3 years old.
If she's only napping well after 6.5 hours awake time. How in the world will I get her to nap when she's older . As obviously she'll be less tired at that time and so on...

I know your first born wasn't the best sleeper as a baby. How is she now ?

FATEdestiny Wed 26-Apr-17 23:02:58

You did everything you thought was right, in the best way you could. That is all any mum can do, so don't beat yourself up about it. You are doing your best. Your best is is always enough and is all anyone expects.

There's no need to have the mindset that she will always go to sleep like this. You can, and should be able to, help her learn to go to sleep in a different way.

The theory explained above is exactly the technique sleep experts use with adult insomniacs - forcing the body to stay awake until very, very tired. Setting an alarm and waking at a routined time with only the bear minimum amount of sleep at first. Then slowly and gradually make the time when "allowed" to go to sleep earlier and earlier.

You could follow a similar learning curve with your daughter. There is no reason to assume she needs to always be like this.

Set a really rigid routine. Wake at set times (including a set morning wake-up time). Go to sleep at set times; when very tired, but not over tired and exhausted. Get a solid routine established and keep her active and engaged during awake times.

Then gradually "allow" her to go to sleep earlier at lunchtime. Just 10 or 15 minutes earlier than the routine time. Give that a week or so to see if it established. Then "allow" her to go to sleep a bit earlier at bedtime too.

Dont rush it, little changes done gradually. Then by the time she's 2 she may be sleeping much better.

I know your first born wasn't the best sleeper as a baby. How is she now ?

She's 12 years old now. A proper young woman. Not too old to come for a snuggle in Mum and Dad's bed in the middle of the night occassionally though. I don't mind though, we have four children - I even can't remember what sleep was like pre-parenting, those days are long-gone.

Timetogrowup2016 Fri 28-Apr-17 11:20:32

The last two days, she has slept through both nights about 11.5-12 hours .
Yesterday she had another nap at 12:55-2:15/20.
Still cranky all afternoon until bedtime. Yawning, eye rubbing, whinging etc. all her tired cues.
Today she woke up at 6:45am.
She was miserable by 8:15. Yawning.
10:45 I had to give up keeping her up. Put her in her cot. She cried. Went in. Held her still for ten minutes. Asleep at 11am. Hoping she doesn't wake at 35 minutes and no idea If done the right thing.

She's woken up with a snotty nose and has also just cut two back molars. Calpol improved her mood a bit this morning

Timetogrowup2016 Fri 28-Apr-17 11:30:11

And she's awake,
30 minutes.

FATEdestiny Fri 28-Apr-17 13:11:08

12:55-2:15 is a great nap!

Cutting molars was by far my worse week (sleep wise) for my DD, so I'd be inclined to cut her a lot of slack given she's just cut them.

Timetogrowup2016 Fri 28-Apr-17 13:25:00

About to put her back down now as she only had 30 earlier

Timetogrowup2016 Fri 28-Apr-17 15:13:12

Well that went well not.
She refused to sleep after trying for an hour so she's had 30 minutes all day 😡

FATEdestiny Fri 28-Apr-17 16:15:57

2 hours was probably too short an awake time for your little girl.

If she's feeling rubbish, just settle on the sofa together and watch tv. Or if better suited, go the other way and take yourself off to the local swimming pool then park and keep her active and busy.

Timetogrowup2016 Fri 28-Apr-17 16:18:46

All trail and error I suppose.
I'll stick to 1pm as that seemed to work well and see what happens .

She's such a pain to keep awake till 1 though

Timetogrowup2016 Fri 28-Apr-17 16:19:15

* trial

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