Bouncer chairs unsafe for sleep.

[Ilovebrownies5]

I've read a lot of advice on here about letting baby sleep in a bouncer chair in the daytime. This is something I did with DC1 but I've since read a lot about the fact that bouncer chairs are not safe for sleep as the babies head isn't supported and if their head flops a certain way it can compromise their airways.

Obviously if you supervise the sleep you can prevent this but I read an article where a baby sadly died and the parent had only nipped out the room for two minutes.

Im expecting DC2 and was going to buy the tiny love rocker napper as it's one that can be reclined into a flat position once baby is sleeping.

I just wanted to mention it because babies sleeping in bouncers has been mentioned on here a lot.

[FATEdestiny]

The one I had (Fisher price) had a reclined position and a more upright (still reclined, but more sat up) setting. I never used any setting other than the lying down position.

Also worth noting that the metal z-frame of most standard bouncers can be bent to suit the position you want. I happen to know, from many months of use, the z-frame flattens over time. So the angles get smaller and the bouncer flatter to the ground. It's not unusual to need to 'bend out' (for want of a better phrase) the metal frame once baby is on the bigger size, especially if used a lot. Because the weight of bouncing a baby squashes it down.

The same can also be said for a newly bought one. So if I felt it was not flat enough, I would bend the metal frame to make it flatter. I assume this comes from the fact that bouncers are used differently for different people. Babies who okay in their bouncer will want to be more upright.

I would consider night sleeping or unsupervised sleeping in a bouncer very dangerous. I wouldn't sleep while my child was in the bouncer.

I definitely would sit myself on the sofa, drinking tea and watching tv while foot bouncing the bouncer at my feet. That's just me though.

The safest possible place for any baby to sleep is alone on a flat, new, firm mattress in the same room you are.

[FATEdestiny]

Okay = play (autocorrect)

[Crunchyside]

I think pretty most parents would let their baby nap for a few minutes in a bouncy chair if they happen to drift off when you're watching them, the trouble is leaving them there for longer naps or intentionally getting them to nap there. I usually picked mine up and moved him if I thought it was time for him to have a proper nap.

[kel1234]

I thought it was more about not purposely putting a baby in them to sleep, instead of a crib or Moses basket or cot?
I never put my lo in it to go to sleep, but a good few times he was sitting in it and fell asleep, I left him to sleep for a bit. He was fine

[mikado1]

Like a pp I always used the flat position for new born.

[savagehk]

IloveBrownies is there a link to that article please? I can only see one where the mother woke up at 4am after falling asleep exhausted on the couch, so baby was clearly asleep a lot longer than 2 minutes unsupervised.

[Ilovebrownies5]

I read it over a year ago and no idea what site. I'll have a google though.

[Ilovebrownies5]

I've searched and can't find the article I read before. I'm thinking I saw it on facebook so it could have been like a screenshot of an article. I'm determined to find it so I'll update if/when I come across it. I'm the process I've found articles whereby it has stressed that a baby's airway can be compromised in a bouncer chair so they must be supervised at all times while in it. One article was referring to a study where they investigated around 50 deaths of babies who were in bouncer chairs or cat seats and looked at the factors surrounding the deaths, so it does happen. Whilst there are bouncers out there that can be reclined into a sleep safe mode, I think that's a much wiser option.

[savagehk]

Interesting. I'm not sure car seat and bouncer are the same though. Infant seats are much more scrunched up to me, where the bouncer i had (very simple, not very structured) fitted better imo. The type i had last time seems more and more unusual, now they all seem to have battery powered vibrations and padding. That said, we didn't use the bouncer until he had head control.

[FATEdestiny]

I agree with savagehk that car seats and bouncers hold babies in very different positions. Slings should be mentioned in this conversation, because they can too.

There are SIDS advice on how to maintain a safe position in a sling. There is also specific advice on SIDS and car seat use. No specific advice on bouncers.

The article you saw on Facebook could easily have been clock bait or fake news. If the article is not easily found, I'd suggest it isn't as you expect from this thread. There would be a lot more discussion on the matter by the large media outlets if it were.

Google about the babynest death - there is an example of a news story developing from a potential baby sleep danger. You will find millions of google hits on the subject. If you cannot find any on this subject, that should tell you something...

[Ilovebrownies5]

There are SIDS advice on how to maintain a safe position in a sling. There is also specific advice on SIDS and car seat use. No specific advice on bouncers.

Fate There is some basic, fundamental information here that you appear to have missed.

Car seats are designed to offer a safe position for babies to sleep in, as we all know babies will often fall asleep in the car. The same applies for a sling. There are ways to minimise the risks of babies sleeping in car seats and slings by using them in the correct way and following the SIDS guidelines.

Bouncer chairs are not safe for sleep. Why would they offer SIDS advice for a product that a baby should not be sleeping in in the first place? If the bouncer is safe for sleep and reclines to a lie flat position, then the normal SIDS guidelines apply, as if it were a crib or moses basket. It's no longer a bouncer chair once it's converted to lie flat.

This article was in the aftermath of the sad death of the 3 month old in a bouncer chair.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/2861063-Bouncer-chairs-unsafe-for-sleep?msgid=67160646#67160646

[Ilovebrownies5]

Hence why there will be a lot of media coverage about the babynest death. That was a product marketed as safe for sleep.

[Ilovebrownies5]

I should also add pushchairs into this too. There is no way to avoid using car seats and pushchairs/slings and babies will sleep in these. There is no requirement for a baby to sleep in a bouncer chair when they can instead be put in their cot/crib/moses basket. Not so simple to put baby in a bed when you're travelling or out for the day. This is why it's important we all know the guidelines for reducing the risk of SIDS whilst baby is in a car seat/pushchair/sling.

[savagehk]

The only two cases I've found on Google are here (baby was on the bouncer chair on the bed, the entire bouncer overturned and the baby suffocated)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6102958/Child-died-after-baby-bouncer-overturned.html

and here (baby was put in bouncy chair when family returned from a day's shopping, and mother woke at 4.30 am to find her unconscious - also note it mentions 'swing' in the article as well as 'bouncer' so hard to tell what they meant)
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/leia-mai-smith-baby-girl-dies-5727233

First is suffocation, not SIDS, second was unexplained.

[savagehk]

Ilovebrownies5 your link doesn't seem to be working?

[Ilovebrownies5]

www.mamamia.com.au/swing-and-car-seat-dangers/

[savagehk]

Ah. OK, that's the same one as the second one I'd linked to, and it sounds like the baby was in it for several hours (10pm-4.30am, possibly?). I think that's a different situation to daytime naps, especially if you are checking in on baby and/or in the same room.

[Ilovebrownies5]

It's definitely down to personal choice and it appears the risks are fairly low but while there are bouncers on the market that can convert to lie flat, I think I'll be able to relax and enjoy my baby more if I know he or she will be safely sleeping rather than having them in one that doesn't recline and having the worry. It's all personal choice though. I'm quite a risk averse person in general, probably to my detriment at times.

[Ilovebrownies5]

I just found the advice from the professionals in that article to be very clear. Sorry for reposting your link. My heads a bit mushed at the moment. Maybe baby brain. Lol.

[FATEdestiny]

This is why it's important we all know the guidelines for reducing the risk of SIDS

Absolutely. You seem to be getting caught up in the fine details op. The most extensive research on SIDS is collated by the Lullaby Trust and their website should be seen as the bible on SIDS risk.

www.lullabytrust.org.uk/evidencebase

I'm not really understanding the basic premise of your thread. Your op seems to be saying don't use these bouncers which is not the safest place for baby, use my recommendation for a bouncer which is also not the safest place for baby to sleep

That seems argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative.

Bouncers are not the safest place for baby to sleep. End of story.

Lots of other things (and regular recommendations for baby sleep) are also not the safest place for baby to sleep.

That does not inherently mean they are unsafe.

The safest place is in a cot, in the same room you are. On a firm, flat mattress. The following are not the safest place for your baby to sleep:

• In your arms
  
• on you
  
• in bed with you
  
• while latched to your nipple on the same surface
  
• In a bouncer
  
• In in a bouncer that lies flat
  
• In in a pushchair
  
• In in a car seat
  
• in a sling
  

None of these are considered unsafe. However, they are not "the safest place for your baby to sleep".

You appear to (be trolling?) not really have a decent appreciation of the SIDS research here. SIDS recommendations are based on risk management, not eliminating risk completely.

[FATEdestiny]

Actually i take back "None of these are considered unsafe". There are recommendations to make some of these safer. What i meant was none of these are giving a "dangerous" label.

[Ilovebrownies5]

Fate - there is no argument here. I didn't understand the risks of baby sleeping in a bouncer chair when I had DC1, I now understand these risks more and so I posted on here as a sort of warning I suppose to those who, like me first time round, may not realise there is a risk at all.

The bouncer chairs that convert to lie flat are considerably less risky and so I just thought I'd let others know.

I'm not sure where you're getting your wires crossed. Absolutely no trolling or argument going on here.

As I said upthread, it's personal choice and I do tend to be very risk averse so I appreciate others may be happy for their children to sleep in the traditional bouncer chair that doesn't go to lie flat. If you don't like my thread, you don't need to comment, but please don't make false accusations of trolling.

[Givemecakeplease]

To anyone who may be interested, this is what we're getting. I've also bought a sheepskin liner to put in for baby to sleep on.

[FATEdestiny]

Lots of people don't understand SIDS risk. Not even with their second, third, fourth... child.

I often pick people up blindly saying "just cosleep, you'll be fine" without considering the risks. Or people who say "My baby napped on me / in my arms until she was 2 years old" without considering the risks when saying this to an exhausted mum who needs to go to sleep herself. Indeed these types of attachment parenting with sleep are like badges of honour to many.

That said though, you'll also find me (and I do understand SIDS research) suggesting cosleeping. Or breastfeeding and leaving baby on the nipple in cradle hold for the nap. Or using a bouncy chair. Or pushchair. Or sling. These things are all part and parcel of baby sleep and so will inherently be part of discussions on the Sleep board. The only important thing is that suggestions are made responsibly.

I link to the Lulkaby Trust website often. Making your points in relation to Lullaby Trust would be better than "I saw some article on Facebook last year".

I get into (often disputed and heated) discussions on SIDS advice regularly. This all helps to increase awareness.

SIDS recommendations are all about managing risk, not eliminating it. Therefore it follows that a parents role is about managing risk too, not eliminating it. Using things that are not dangerous and also not the safest possible option comes into that.

The more people who understand not just the risks, but the reasons for the risks, the better.

[Ilovebrownies5]

Well we're in complete agreement on that Fate. I don't think I minimised or understood the risks enough first time round. Like you say, we just need to manage the risks as best we can.