HELP! 11mo ds2 doesn't go to bed at night. HV wants me to try controlled crying but I won't. I'm exhausted and need advice!

[punkpuffin]

Ds2 is 11 months he slept well when he was tiny but gradually for worse. He's up now playing and laughing. He doesn't go to bed until between 9-11. He naps fine (Although he will only nap in a cushion nest on the sofa not in his cot). It normally takes 2-3 bottles of formula to get him to sleep and then it's a nightmare putting him in the cot without him waking. HV told me he should only have one bottle and then go to bed and do controlled crying. I tried once and he made himself sick. I can't do it but I'm going crazy as ds1 wakes at 6 everyday. Dh works evenings so I have to do both dcs bed time. Ds1 goes to bed at 7 so I think ds2 is over tired by the time I try to settle him. I don't know what to do. ( I also have pnd which isn't helped by lack of sleep).

[dementedpixie]

Gradual withdrawal? Pick up put down? I agree with stopping the multiple bottles too

[punkpuffin]

Thank you pixie. I will look at trying gradual withdrawal. I'm not sure how id cut his bottles down though.

[ILoveDolly]

When does he nap? With my worst sleeping child I had to experiment little with dropping naptime a bit, plus setting staggered bed times.
Although your Dh is being a bit harsh he is a bit right in that you need to take control now.
I'd say now it's time to set a bedtime routine so you put ds2 ready for bed and having his bottle while you help ds1 get ready for bed. Read story to both all snuggled up, then put baby in bed, and leave him to tuck in older child. Do not let him stay up if he's not asleep. Staying up in a dark room is not much fun and they get the message eventually its bedtime.
With mine I did not do controlled crying but more a gradual withdrawal technique so for a week or so I sat with them and then moved away. There are explanation s of this technique around. It takes a few weeks but in the end you have a child who mostly accepts that bedtime is bedtime. So it's worth it in the long run.
A few weeks of hard work now to get your life back.....

[Ragdoll545]

Could you put him to bed any earlier? Have you tried the interval thing so leave for 10 minutes then go in and soothe then leave for 15 mins and increase it?

[ILoveDolly]

One bottle thoughts: If you put him down not asleep he has more chance of learning to sleep better because he won't be seeking the bottle when he wakes in the night. Maybe a dummy? Useful at night

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Can you go to bed with him?

[Faulksonline]

What are his nap times in the day Puffin? DS is 8 months & his bed time is definitely affected by nap times; any time after 4pm is asking for trouble in our house. He generally has two 40 ish minute naps (am & pm), so he's pretty shattered by 7. Agree with pp re gradual withdrawal, but perhaps starting with 1 or 2 minutes rather than 10. Good luck

[punkpuffin]

Dolly- he naps about 11am. I won't let him nap after 1 as that makes things worse. I've tried a dummy but he just spits it out.

Fine- Sometimes I go to bed with him if I'm exhausted and he really won't settle but evenings is when I try to catch up on house work etc so I don't like to do it every night.

[haywhenthesunshines]

OP-he goes to bed at 9-11pm but he has been awake since 1pm? He sounds like he is very overtired- could you encourage 2 naps ? Or move his morning nap back ?

[haywhenthesunshines]

And i would persist with the dummy- he sounds like he is sucking for comfort and should not need 3 bottles if he has had enough calories in the day?good luck , it sounds so hard for you.

[LalaLeona]

Maybe you need to up his solids so he doesn't take as much milk

[Orangebird69]

One nap around midday for an 11mo doesn't sound enough to me...

[Purplebluebird]

I agree, it sounds like he might need an extra nap? Maybe even just a short one. Have you tried white noise or calming music as additional help? We have Ewan the dreamsheep, and my now 3 year old boy puts on the harp song every evening! It definitely helps him go to sleep, and he doesn't wake up when it stops.

[minipie]

One nap 11-1 and then bed at 9pm is not going to work for an 11 month old, he will be way way overtired by then.

I would either add a second nap at 4pm ish (maybe reduce the first nap a bit to allow for this, and you may have to use the buggy), or if you want to stick with one nap then put DS2 to bed at 6/6.30pm.

Also is he having enough food/milk in the day?

[punkpuffin]

I decided to give ds2 his bottle at 6.00. He actually fell asleep, at 6.20 my uncle turned up and rang the door bell. Now ds2 is wode awake. I cried a lot. I have put him in his cot and I'm sat in the room ignoring him so hes not alone but not getting attention. Hes throwing teddies at me to make me react.

[minipie]

Agggh how annoying for you! I feel your pain (I have a post it on my doorbell which says please use the knocker instead!).

Try again at say 7.30/8 - he is tired, a 20 minute nap will have revived him but only for a bit...

[minipie]

And try again on other days, your uncle won't do it again!

[punkpuffin]

About his feeds/naps his general routine (on a week day) is

7.30 wake up
7.45 Breakfast (baby porridge or fruit)
9.00 drop ds1 at playgroup
9.15 play time etc
9.45 snack time (goodies fruit bar or fruit)
10.00 play time
11.00 bottle and nap
1.00 wake up
1.15 lunch (sandwich, baby cheese puffs, veg sticks)
1.30 walk or more play time
2.30 snack time (baby biscuit)
3.00 collect ds2
3.15 shares ds1s snack
4.30 tea time (tonight was chicken mash and veg, he ate the same amount as 3yo ds1, then fromage frais)
5.15 bath and pjs
6.30 ds1 bed time (both have story)
6.45/7 bottle
7.30 asleep (slightest movement and he's awake and ready to play)
8.30 second bottle
9 asleep if I'm lucky if not then
9.30 3rd bottle
(I try to put him down in between but he screams until he's sick if I leave him).

As I said, I tried bottle at 6 today and it might have worked if we hadn't been disturbed.

[minipie]

I think that routine will work fine in a few months OP - he'll probably nap a bit later, and be a bit older, so be able to get through to 7.30. But at the moment he's overtired by 7.30. Try 6 again!

[LoftDweller]

I've been where you are and it's bloody horrible. I think he's too reliant on milk to go to sleep and he definitely doesn't need that much. With my awful sleeper (who needed rocking to sleep) I did it in stages.

First, I put him on my bed and lay with him. He screamed and tried to crawl off (wanted rocking) and your ds will do the same (wanting milk). I ignored him and every time he got close to the edge of the bed just placed him back next to me. Took about a week before he would stay quietly next to me until he fell asleep.

Next to get him back in the cot, I'd put him in awake, then sit on the floor with my arm through the bars resting on him. Again it took about a week.

From there I did gradual retreat. It sounds long winded but really did work doing it bit by bit. Good luck

[oleoleoleole]

You've had advice and decided not to take it!!

[Stuffedshirt]

Controlled crying works very quickly, if you are consistent and stick to it. I'd recommend it to anyone. The results are enormous, everyone sleeps better and feels better. What's not to like?

[Orangebird69]

Controlled crying does not work for every baby. It's not some magic fix or everyone would do it.

[punkpuffin]

Oleo. I've decided not to take it as it makes my son cry until he is sick which is not something in willing to put him through so I'm looking for other options.

[minipie]

You've had advice and decided not to take it!!

She did try it, her DS made himself sick, do you suggest she tries again? (I wouldn't and I'm not anti CC)