Cuddle to sleep

[Blueskies32]

After some advice or stories of what has worked for you please

Our son is 11 months old, for the first 6-9 months he was a terrible terrible sleeper and so we did whatever worked to get us all sleep ie slept a lot in sling/breastfed to sleep/Co slept and got by. He did get better and things were ok but been struggling again last few weeks in particuar with getting to sleep in evening

His current routine is: usually does half hour nap in the morning and an hour in the afternoon ok (in pram)
Evening: He is bottle fed now and has bath/bottle/ITNG/book/cuddle and saying goodnight to everything routine.

He has always started off on his own in his cot and we later cosleep at some point after (no night feeds)

He used to be put in cot asleep and stir and need minimal help to settle. Awake 40mins later but again minimal fuss. Alas no longer- our evenings are becoming non existent- We are spending up to an hour cuddling him long enough so he is then put down in a deep sleep (not long enough and there will be angry screaming) whilst knowing this may not be good longer term we put it down to colds and teething etc but gone on weeks now??) then he wakes every 40 mins until cosleeping where he sleeps amazingly of course!

I was wondering if it's a known phase and keep cuddling (till top teeth are out?!)or if a pick up put down approach or similar is worth trying to get him used to falling asleep on his own (not up for CIO).

Thanks for any help

[FATEdestiny]

He sounds over tired.

More sleep = better sleep.
Poor sleep = worse sleep.

There is this perverse correlation in children's sleep whereby a child not getting enough sleep finds it much harder to get to sleep, is a light sleeper and so wakes more frequently. Which creates a spiral of sleep getting worse and worse.

Whereas a child getting lots of sleep ties to sleep quicker and easier, sleeps more deeply so wakes less frequently and ends up ever improving the quantity and quality of their sleep.

I'd say you need to break that over tiredness cycle by more daytime sleep. More daytime sleep means he'll be less over-tired by bedtime so easier to settle.

At 13 months old I'd be wanting 3-4h of daytime sleep with 11-12h of unbroken night time sleep. If night time sleep is broken them even more daytime sleep is likely to be needed.

Can you resettle him back to sleep in the daytime. I'd go for either two 90+ mins naps at 9am and 1pm or a longer nap 11 or 12pm

[Blueskies32]

Thank you for replying

Interesting take thanks and i would agree, I wish he would sleep longer in the day and i will try harder to facilitate this, I usually keep walking the pram during his afternoon nap and some times he will get 1.5hrs max but often at the hour mark he will not stop screaming and I give up
Interestingly he has missed his morning nap a few times this week and this may be why the last few evenings have been worse!

Do you think a later nap is needed too if he isn't getting enough at 1pm? I always worry he won't then be sleepy at 7pm!

Thanks again I always find your posts so helpful

[FATEdestiny]

Do you think a later nap is needed too if he isn't getting enough at 1pm? I always worry he won't then be sleepy at 7pm!

Definately. It sounds to me like you are over-estimating how long your son can stay awake and this is leading to you worry he won't be tired enough. For comparison with my youngest (DC4 is currently 26 months old):

At 11m she was sleeping:
6.30/7am wake
9am-11am nap (I'd wake her)
1pm-3pm (I'd wake her again)
7.00/7.30pm bed and sleep through.

At 20 months she first moved to 1-nap:

7am wake
11pm-2/3pm nap
7.30 bed

Shes just over 2 years old now and sleeps:

7am wake
12-3pm nap
7.30/8pm bed

[Sparrowlegs248]

I started gradual retreat at about 12 months, also with circumstances similar (ds napped in pram, bf to sleep, Co sleep, sling sleep etc)

Bf to sleep stopped working so wad having to bf, then cuddle (sometimes wrestle) then do the cot transfer bingo.

I started by introducing a cup of milk which he soon preferred over bf. So he now has bath, stories (2) cuddle, into cot with milk and mobile on. I can leave him awake and he will go to sleep watching the mobile. I have done it very gradually indeed with virtually no tears.

Agree that more sleep equals better sleep but Ds hasn't read that bit of the book. At 11 months he was having 2 naps of 30 -60 minutes but often two of 30. He's 15 months now and has just one, whatever I try. Sometimes just 30 minutes but often over an hour and sometimes close to 2.

Gradual retreat might be worth a go? I had to stand over the cot patting and singing for three nights, but very quickly progressed to sitting nearby reading.

[Blueskies32]

Thanks. Yes unfortunately our son hasn't read the book either. I wish he would sleep for a long nap in the day, we have never ever managed to go beyond an hour and a half (and thats with pushing pram) but I will try and aim for more overall sleep however I can.

Generally he does fall asleep quite quickly in the pram now, used to be such a battle so that's one thing at least.

I'm up for using gradual retreat just stuck with the leaving him in his cot awake step. I am trying to get him attached to ewan the sheep/iggle piggle soft toy at the moment to try and introduce some new sleep associations
thanks again

[HeCantBeSerious]

Is he walking yet? There's often a sleep regression in readiness for that.

[Blueskies32]

Yes he's taking some tentative steps, wonder if that is contributing!
Thanks

[Sparrowlegs248]

I put of the gradual retreat thing for AGES, because ds is not an easily put down baby. But honestly, I'm so glad I did it. Yes the first few nights too a while. 75 minutes was the worst, but there wasn't actual crying, but complaining, tired moaning etc. I don't think you're 'supposed' to interact too much but he would have really cried if I hadn't. So that was where patting etc came in. The musical light show thing is great too, he doesn't even get up now, just lays watching the ceiling.

[Blueskies32]

Good to hear a success story thank you! He loves light shows so may give the light projector another go (previously used with cot mobile but too stimulating)

I'm so torn with Co sleeping or not, it feels like the solution to everything but also the cause, like every time he can't sleep it's because he doesn't want to be on his own (fair enough and he's only little once right)

[Sparrowlegs248]

I totally agree about Co sleeping. We still do after he wakes up, BUT this week we have had two nights of sleeping through!! But other nights he's woken at 3 mostly, and cuddled back to sleep on the bed then Co slept.

My aim is that having stopped bf back to sleep in the night, he should stop waking and therefore stay in his cot. Dc2 due in 12weeks so hope it works!!