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Ds doesn't sleep/nap well, dc2 on the way. Advice welcome!

(15 Posts)
Nottalotta Sun 09-Oct-16 13:02:18

Ds will be 18 months when dc2 arrives. His sleep has never been great, but (teething, immunisations etc not included.......) we are getting much better nights. Falls asleep in his cot with me somewhere close by. Wakes once or twice and bf. Co sleep after about 2am or the one or second wake up. Up early. Possulibly doesn't sound great but a big improvement. Plans are to move into own room in the next month and start returning to cot after wake up, stop bf.

Naps. Will really only nap in the pram. I walk him twice a day to nap. Wondering how I will manage this in winter heavily pregnant, post C section with a newborn!

So advice re his naps appreciated, and advice with How to start out with dc2 to attempt a better sleeper. If that's at all possible.......

Nottalotta Sun 09-Oct-16 13:04:17

As a matter of interest, I'm.postingvthis while he rolls around his cot. He woke and pooped at 4.50 am and after a change and half an hour I managed to get him back to sleep (miracle!!!) and so he didn't get up until 7.50!!!!!!! This has not happened since his newborn days. So although tired mid morning he refused to nap in the pram, so am attempting a cot nap now.........

Nottalotta Sun 09-Oct-16 13:41:02

After 45 minutes of rolling about, standing up, tired moaning, he banged his head and cried. So I gave in and laid on the bed to bf, he crawled around laughing at me. Given up.

FATEdestiny Sun 09-Oct-16 22:24:21

How old is ds now? Hes over 12m isnt he? Given the fact you are pregnant, I would just bite the bullet and deal with some screaming (short term pain for long term gain).

I don't say this lightly. i dont normally advocate distressing methods. But I've read your previous posts. My DC1 was a nightmare sleeper and I was still rocking to sleep and dealing with multiple, lengthy night wakes when she was 12m old. She was just 14m old when DC2 was born. It was a case of needs must.

We did CIO. It was horrendous but did work. What I vowed as I was listening to DC1screaming was that I would never makes these same mistakes again and would never get to the point where I needed to witness this level of distress ever again. My 3 subsequent children had much healthier sleep habits.

How to start out with dc2 to attempt a better sleeper.

Dummy. Dummy. DUMMY!
Swaddle
Put baby down once asleep.
Lots and lots of sleep and feeding when newborn. Just feed and sleep, feed and sleep, feed and sleep.

ThisLittlePiggyHadRoastBeef Sun 09-Oct-16 22:48:57

No real advice, just a hand hold! I've just found out I'm pregnant, DD is 2 and still wakes during the night and I bf and co sleep thereafter.

But - we'll survive! By 18 months your DS will probably only be having the one nap a day, you'll just have to hope you get some nice weather for a walk (if that's the only way he will fall asleep by then!)

It's all very well saying a dummy will help - but some babies just will not take them (I tried 6 different types and persevered for SIX months and she still wouldn't entertain one!). I also have friends who have had major issues with a dummy falling out in the middle of the night etc etc

I'm told a second baby is often easier so let's just hope that's true

Congratulations by the way!

Nottalotta Mon 10-Oct-16 08:39:31

Thanks both.

Fate - he's 14 months. If there's one thing I've taken from my hours of reading and posting here, it's the dummy. I don't think I tried soon enough with ds. Is it OK to start right away when bf? I will also attempt to swaddle!

I neeeeed to get him in his own room as I feel like I will find it easier to deal with. Husband has a couple of weeks before I start skipping his crap. I do wonder quite how I wil just feed and sleep when I've got ds but I'll work it out...... (that's all I did with him, he just didn't like being put down, so I didn't.....)

Littlepiggy - thank and congratulations to you too!

Woke at 4.20 and bf for ages. Then got a nappy leak so full change. Then resisted sleep (awake but drowsy) til 5.45. Slept til 7.20 so probably going to not bother with the mid morning nap after yesterday.

Only trouble is, I have to leave the house at 7 on workdays!

ElphabaTheGreen Mon 10-Oct-16 09:08:53

Dummy did not work at all with my DS2, nor did swaddling. Nor did a rock-solid routine from day one, nor constant feeding and perfectly-timed naps, or putting down 'sleepy but awake' or not feeding to sleep. He was just as bad a sleeper as DS1, if not slightly worse, even though I knew every 'good sleep habit' trick in the book.

The only thing that really works is to shift your expectations. Some babies just aren't ready to sleep independently until well past a year old, sometimes two, and that's normal. It's really bloody hard, but it's normal. Do whatever gets your DCs the sleep they need so that their awake time is not spent being cranky and fractious because you've spent periods when they should be resting battling to get them into a sleep habit they're not developmentally ready for.

The way I got DS1 sleeping in his own room before DS2 arrived was by spending a lot of time in there with him so that his bedroom became his favourite room in the house, where he felt safe and happy enough to sleep. I slept on his floor with him in there for several weeks (all night) then transitioned that to sitting with him while he fell asleep/sitting with him during night waking until he went back to sleep, and putting more space between us over several weeks. A very, very gradual withdrawal basically. All CIO/CC achieved for us was complete cot and room aversion so I would never advocate it for that reason - yes, it might work, but equally it could have the exact opposite effect. Also, gradual withdrawal isn't cry-free, but at least you know your child is directing their frustrations at you directly, not screaming because they don't know when you're coming back, or at having been left alone.

Naps - DS1 only ever napped on me or in the car until he dropped naps altogether at 2.5yo. No stress. Hang out on the sofa or in bed with both at nap time and sleep yourself, or go for a drive, then park up somewhere with a book or MN. Easy. smile DS2 does nap in his cot (now - he certainly didn't always!) and the novelty of having a child that does this has yet to wear off! grin

FATEdestiny Mon 10-Oct-16 11:12:07

the dummy. I don't think I tried soon enough with ds. Is it OK to start right away when bf?

Best advice is to wait until bf is established, maybe a few weeks. That said, dummy use hasnt adversely affected bf in my experience. I guess it's a case of being mindful not to give dummy when newborn needs a feed.

I didn't give DC1 a dummy until she was 20 weeks (i considered myself to middle class to use a dummy. Ha!). She was already past any benefit by then to be honest so she never developed enough independant comfort.

Whereas I took a dummy with me into hospital when i gave birth to DC2. He had one from literally a day old. He was the easiest and longest term breastfeeder of my children.

DC3 had a dummy from about a week old (he was ff so needed the sucking comfort since there was no nipple for comfort). DC4 didn't instantly take to a dummy. I didn't start giving hers until about 2-3 weeks (she was ebf) but she didn't accept it until 7-8 weeks old.

I agree with pp that having realistic expectations is a significant factor in second and subsequent children being less stressful to parent.

I could list millions of different ways my expectations became more realistic but for me the most significant were

- not stressing the use of dummies
- introducing bottles early
- not stressing the occassional bottle of formula when breastfeeding
- not feeling the need to 'entertain' a tiny baby (thus encouraging lots and lots more sleep instead)
- not feeling the need to be busy when you have a baby. I might spend the first 6 months mostly just eating and sleeping (and watching tv), just like the baby.

ElphabaTheGreen Mon 10-Oct-16 12:24:16

- not feeling the need to 'entertain' a tiny baby (thus encouraging lots and lots more sleep instead)
- not feeling the need to be busy when you have a baby. I might spend the first 6 months mostly just eating and sleeping (and watching tv), just like the baby.

^^ Totally agree with these.

Nottalotta Mon 10-Oct-16 15:28:16

I couldn't get ds to take a bottle either, and failed to express much. I think I might start with a bottle of formula once a day from the start this time. Ds was also very easy to bf, so if this next one is the same it can have a bottle a day and a dummy for sleep. I didn't want to give ds a dummy, but hadn't actually considered that I could give it for sleep and that he needn't be wandering around with it in all day aged 3 (which is what put me off)

My expectations/standards are suitably low I think. Ds has seen to that!

Nottalotta Mon 10-Oct-16 15:29:14

One thing, what does ds do while I eat, sleep and watch telly? He won't bloody watch telly. Or sit still.

FATEdestiny Mon 10-Oct-16 16:33:10

hadn't actually considered that I could give it for sleep and that he needn't be wandering around with it in all day aged 3

DD used a dummy without restriction for 0-6m, when mostly it's all about sleeping anyway. From 6-12m I started restricting it to only when at home or if out only when asleep. By 12m she only has the dummy for sleeping and it never leaves her cot.

She may well still have the comfort if a dummy for the 10 mins it takes her to drop to sleep when she's 3. But no one will see it in her mouth.

I'm of the opinion that children will need some form of comfort to get to sleep until school age. Dummies mean that comfort comes independently so I therefore have no issue with allowing a dummy for comfort until it's no longer needed. Mine have been about 4 years old when this happened and it's not been difficult or distressing.

One thing, what does ds do while I eat, sleep and watch telly? He won't bloody watch telly. Or sit still.

The bitch that is having more than one child. Just cut yourself lots of slack. Give yourself a break. Don't expect to do much. And try to get both children to nap at the same time.

Nottalotta Mon 10-Oct-16 20:53:32

Thanks Fate, I really appreciate all of your advice. You might wish to take a mumsnet break come Feb 2017....... Apologies in advance.

FATEdestiny Mon 10-Oct-16 22:42:42

Lol

Congratulations on your pregnancy flowers

You'll do great.

Nottalotta Tue 11-Oct-16 11:19:12

Thanks! smile

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