can you talk to me about pick up put down?

[BusyCee]

DC3 is coming up for onths and I'm belatedly getting her into a bedtime routine. She goes down ok but wakes shortly afterwards and howls. She roots for boob, I give in and feed her because I'm knackered and its a tactical answer. But it's not a long term solution I know.

Tonight I want to start pick up put down. I seem to remember this;

• first cries, sooth with voice and hand on chest
• if she carries on pick her and soothe in arms until she calms, then out her down
• repeat until she sleeps
• use the same phrases, eg, don't worry darling, it's just time for sleep, so she learns the words

Anything else I should recall...?

[nannyintheknow]

Hello there Busycee,

You have the technique spot on. The important thing to remember is the PUPD method requires a lot of patience, and it won’t work for every baby, some babies find being picked up and put down so often overstimulating, and they gradually become worked up, instead of relaxed.

You said she wakes shortly after going down, may I suggest that you cluster feed from about 5 pm until she has her big feed before bed. You'll find that this fills her up and will see her through to the next sleep cycle.

Hope that helps.

[BusyCee]

Thanks Nanny. I'll give it a go this eve and over the next couple of days and see how it goes...

She's #3 so unfortunately she needs to fit in with the older two too!

[Pipistrella]

I actually find feeding to sleep an excellent long term solution, I'm sorry you are having a tough time, but I suspect trying this /witholding boob might just be more hassle than it's worth, iyswim.

Good luck, whether or not you do it

[BusyCee]

It's just that I've got to start getting her down in the evening. For my own sanity I need a few hours a day where I haven't got demands coming at me from every angle, and I'm not keeping on top of everything as I literally have no time child free. Also starting work again next week - only PT - but need some consistency and mental space. Slightly on my knees right now...

[BusyCee]

Any other suggestions?

[FATEdestiny]

BusyCee

Don't let anyone guilt you into feeling like you are wrong for wanting your baby to sleep independently. You are not.

PUPD may work for you, give it a try. None of my four liked the stimulation of being picked up so I just did all of the reassurance from in the cot - firm hand, occasional finger-pat with firm hand, quiet calm presence and a dummy.

Your OP doesn't say baby's age - but what about a bedside cot if young enough? Removing one side off the cot and butting it up to the bed meant I could cuddle right next to the cot cuddling baby and reassuring - all the while leaving her in the cot to go to sleep.

[Pipistrella]

Erm, I'm not trying to guilt anyone into anything, thank you! Yikes.

[BusyCee]

Sorry, OP fail...

She's 4months, and DC3...

[BusyCee]

I don't intend to withhold boob - I intend to feed her to sleep (which worked ok with the other two) but then not let her use me as a dummy, so teach her it's not scary in her cot so when she wakes in future can go back to sleep. So to feed, but if she wakes within 3 hours to soothe rather than suckle, if that makes sense?

[BusyCee]

Will try this eve and see what happens.

Incidentally, she rolled for the first time today, so suspect that may have something to do with it!

[BusyCee]

Fuck fuck fuck. Anyone still there? I'm losing the fucking plot. I'm going back to work next week - albeit pt - but I'm getting desperate to have some time back. I literally haven't had any child free time since Dd was born in October. And I can't carry on like this. Im getting furiously angry with frustration.

Today she had a two he nap (on me, naturally) 1-3pm. Had feeds throughout the afternoon but no more sleep - fell asleep briefly on the boo but roused her. Fed her to sleep at 7....and I'm fucking still here. She feeds. Drops off. I wait until I think she's deeply off. Put her in the Moses. As soon as I move her she wakes and howls.

Same last night. Eventually at 830 I thought fuck it and went to bed too. She went off at 830.

Bedtime routine starts at 545/6ish. There are two older DS's, 5 and 2.5. I've got them pretty sorted now (if you read any previous threads you'll know about the room sharing issue....thanks to anyone who pp. I dropped ds2s nap and he now sleeps at bedtime but is a whiny bastard every afternoon from 430 onwards.

Honestly. We don't have any support. Ds1 is at school and there's some childcare for ds2 but I feel utterly swamped and overwhelmed by children and I don't have any time for me at all. I haven't eaten for the last three nights because I've been trying to get her to bed and I won't be again tonight. I'm starting to lose my shit.

Sorry for the rant. Tell me I'm not going mad. Please. Someone. What the fix so I do with her?

[FATEdestiny]

Rant away

Lets be realistic, this will not be solved by next week. It probably won't be solved by next month. The gentle methods such as PUPD or Gradual Withdrawal take much, much longer.

So ask yourself:

• Do you want quick results and no crying? Answer: Feed to sleep and co-sleep
• Do you want quick results and no matter what? Answer: Controlled Crying or Cry it Out (or similar)
• Do you want no (or minimal) crying but accept it will take time? Answer would be PUPD or Gradual Withdrawal

I think since the 'putting down' is your hardest bit I would change from PUPD to settling in the cot. But I am biased since GW is my parenting ethos of choice.

[BusyCee]

I'm actually felling a bit panicky and tearful.

[BusyCee]

I know that's lack of sleep and control rather than the task of teaching her to sleep. I know. I need to work out a plan - complicated by the older two and the lack of space in the house.

I might go to bed again now and think tomorrow when I'm more clear headed.

I just need some aoce be I don't know what to do to get it...

[FATEdestiny]

Get yourself some sleep tonight. Now probably isn't the right time to make a decision on this.

[mikado1]

A really important part of pUPS for My ds1 was don't bold for more than 5 mins, try a put down and pat in cot, pu straight away again if it doesn't work but sometimes they're just wrecked/overstumulated and need to get to sleep. Try the 5min rule if you're not already doing it.

[Starbores]

Is it maybe the Moses basket? One of my dc hated his, I attatched the cotbed to my bed so I could sooth him but still have him get used to the cot.

He transitioned into the cot in the nursery at 5 months with no problems.

Have you considered introducing a dummy? The odd night that mine wouldn't settle due to teething or whatever I would co sleep.

I felt like you that I had no time to myself so decided to start putting them in the cot at 6.30, first few nights I was up and down to help them settle again but they got the hang of it. That few hours in the evening to yourself is so important.

[BusyCee]

Thanks all. Am now in bed with the smallest violin in the world, feeling dreadfully sorry myself (total loss of anything for me; complete absorption by children; haven't had any time alone or to do anything to nourish me for months; can't even have a bath alone; feeling a bit 'nobody cares'.... So v grateful for your time.

Not sure I can do cio, even though I did it for ds1. Don't feel emotionally strong enough. She has to stay in the Moses because our room isn't big enough for cot and her room, while tiny, is currently full of crap (we're painting a room downstairs).

So I guess it's resign myself to something gentle. I wonder if I've left it too long for this and she's too old? She just doesn't calm down at all when I soothe with my hand on her chest. She keeps howling. If I pick her up she roots repeatedly head butts me. I think it'll be a case of soothing her in the Moses won't it....

Sigh. Am going to try to clear brain now and sleep. Plan of action tomorrow

[luckiestgirlintheworld]

Why don't you feed laying down on the bed, and then you can just ninja roll away once she's drowsy from the boob? Works every time with mine. Do you have a bed guard? Dig it out and let her sleep on the bed for a couple of hours while you have an evening. Would this work?

[HeiressesGiltnor]

I think FATE speaks some very words here OP.

You might be about to hit the 4 month sleep regression too, which can be hard work.

We sleep trained at 4 months and it served us well. We based our actions on PUPD but didn't actually pick him up as it just made him cross to be put back down.

My DS was in a routine of feeding to sleep. I didn't like that every time he woke, I had to feed him. I would have been fine if it were every few hours but it was every 45 minutes! He didn't need the milk, he wanted the comfort.

So my DH and I accepted we needed to work together to change the situation. For the first week, he would be fed to sleep at bedtime by me, but the DH would cuddle him. When he'd stir he'd know straight away as he was still holding him so he could shush and pat him back to sleep. DS wasn't keen at first but he was always held and comforted so there was nothing wrong with it. We agreed that if he woke an over an hour and a half after a feed he could be fed back to sleep, but anything before we'd shush and pat him.

Then over the course of the next 2/3 weeks we moved DS further away from 'us'. So instead of being held he was snuggled up next to us, then next to us but not touching, and then finally in the bedside cot. After a few weeks he could generally be resettled in the night with just a few shushes and pats whilst he was in his cot.

From then on he improved on his own, I think because he didn't feel worried or alone in his cot. It was a safe place for him, mummy and daddy were there if he needed them. He started being able to settle himself as it was enough to know we were there or even just for us to lay a hand next to him to hold.

By the time he moved into his own room he was able to settle himself to sleep again if he woke up at night. It was a little while (10 months) until he could get himself off to sleep alone, but we were able to cuddle him to sleep easily and then pop him in his cot. He'd wake up a tad but was happy in his cot so would just closed his eyes and go back to sleep.

HTH

Good luck

[BiscuitMillionaire]

It probably won't be solved by next month. The gentle methods such as PUPD or Gradual Withdrawal take much, much longer.
Not necessarily. PUPD took 2 nights to make a difference to my DS, and within 2 weeks he was reliably sleeping through from about 8pm to 5 or 6am (previously waking every 2 hours for bf). He was older though - 8 months. Your DD is not too old - in fact only just old enough, as IIR the Baby Whisperer method for babies up to 4 months is a different technique - 'shush pat' - which is too stimulating for older babies.

You need to read up - and even ask questions - on the Baby Whisperer forum www.babywhispererforums.com/ The important thing is to be absolutely 100% consistent so your baby knows that if she's distressed you will comfort her, but she learns to go back to sleep in her cot without using the 'prop' of your boob.

I know it doesn't work for everyone, but it worked dramatically well for me. You don't have to suffer so much. Good luck.

[HeiressesGiltnor]

Agree with biscuit. It took a while to be 'sorted' but things improved rapidly once we put our plan in place.

Baby Whisperer really is great!

[IHeartKingThistle]

PUPD worked for us at 4 months. I think I remember the book saying don't rock, just hold, and put down as soon as they stop crying. We never ever took them out of the bedroom at night past this age, so there was no expectation of that.

I think it's much easier at this age when they can't stand up!

You are doing the right thing. When you succeed - which you will! - ALL of you will be saner and happier.

[BusyCee]

Wow - slept from 830 to 130! All I need to do now is get her to sleep an hour earlier and I'll be laughing!

Thanks all for suggestions and recommendations. Am calmer now....and yy will rope DH in to The Plan.

Thanks again

[BusyCee]

No need to reply to this anyone, but I don't have anyone to talk to in RL, and I just want to get this down

4ish - dd wakes after nap. Feed her

530ish - feed dd. She falls asleep and I rouse her

6ish - bath and get ready for bed for all DCs

645 - get into our bed with ds1 to do bedtime stories. Start to feed dd. She sleeps and comes off boob of her own accord.

730 - end of stories for ds. Put sleeping dd in Moses basket. As soon as I got to move her she wakes. Ds goes to his bed. Return to dd and place hand in chest and shush her. After 5 mins she's inconsolable. Pick her up. She's screams like a banshee. Thrashing and writhing. I hold her close and shush her. She eventually calms. I put her down. As soon as I lower her into basket she's cries. This continues (with the addition of me crying) until 915 when she calms. I put her down and starts to wail but falls asleep exhausted. I'm exhausted. I know I need to get her sleeping in the Moses basket from about 730 (or earlier) each eve to maintain my sanity. I know I did this with ds1...can't remember what happened with ds2. I know that in the night she feeds and then goes back to the basket with no problem. I know she's safe. I hope this will take only a couple of nights and she'll get it. I feel fragile and exhausted and desperate and guilty and sorry for her and even sorrier for me. I miss my mum. I wonder how much sleep I'll get tonight and what time she'll wake in the morning. This morning she woke at 515, fed and went to sleep. I put her down at 6, and ds2 woke shortly afterwards. I've been up since then, responding to the needs of others. I know I need to make sure my cup is full enough to do a good job with them all and that's why it's important to have some hours in the evening.

I'm going to sleep now.