the no-cry sleep solution

[iris66]

has anyone tried it? (book by Elizabeth Pantley) I'm on day 2 & looking for a bit of support as I know it's going to take time. I'm dying through sleep depravation with 8mth DS who bfs to sleep but is very very tricky to move so have been cosleeping whilst he fidgets & kicks all night(and power naps during the day)
Think this is the last chance saloon before ear plugs & leaving him to get hysterical (even though I know that won't happen - i just couldn't, he really does do the whole temper, then sad then hysteria/shaking/terror/I've been abandoned thing - even if DH goes to him - such a mummy's boy)
Anyway, please post if you've been successful with this [hopeful emoticon]

[sweetkitty]

hi Iris I have just posted myself on T's non sleeping as well (in a way I'm glad it's not just me from the Jan thread that has problems, gets you down when they all go on about their 7-7 wondersleepers) anyway how are you finding the book so far, I will be watching your thread now, let me know who you get on, I may just be clicking on amazon before too long.

[iris66]

anyone?

[bumbleweed]

Hi Iris, I have had that book out of the library twice now to try to help with my dd's sleep - she is 11 months now.

We have put alot of the suggestions in place - early bed-time, good bed-time routine, music etc. Our dd has never been able to go to sleep lying down on her own - has always needed rocking or feeding to sleep since she was a colicky baby.

The pull-off thing, where you try to wean them off breastfeeding to sleep hasnt worked for us, but I have read other threads where someone said it took 3 weeks but it did work for them.

We are trying to wean her off rocking to sleep - by rocking to relax and then putting her in the cot. Its taking weeks and weeks but the last few nights it really is starting to work - there have been tears and screaming but we dont believe in leaving her to cry so cuddle lots and stay with her. She now understands the phrase 'lie down' which is a huge bonus, whereas even 2 weeks ago she didnt.

Today I have even managed to put her down for a nap without rocking her (normally dh does bedtimes so he has been dealing with all the crying). It took me an hour this afternoon but she is asleep.

The music helps I think - we have one of those relaxation CDs called 'Sleep'. Also repeating the phrase 'sleepy sleepy, sleepy time' and 'SSSHHHHHHHHH' - using them when she is asleep and drifting off so that she associates with sleep.

What are you currently trying?

[iris66]

Thanks for posting bumbleweed It's great to have a positive story and I'm so glad it's working for you at last. I know it's going to take time so I'm persevering.
I'm doing the unlatching at the mo which seems to be successful on wakings up until about 1am but then he just won't go back in his cot (I've spent literally hours nursing,unlatching, rocking,shhushing & thinking he's deeply asleep only for him to wake as soon as he's in there - no matter how much I continue the rocking/shushing once he's down. I tend to give up at that point & sleep with him in his room (spare bed), though given that this impasse used to start at was 10pm I do feel I've made some headway [weak smile emoticon]
I've used music in his bedtime routine since birth, and the whole shhing/rocking thing. Unfortunately DH is away a lot (sometimes for weeks at a time) so he can't really help (DS just gets hysterical if DH tries to settle him at night even though he's great with him during the day)

DS isn't overly keen on daytime napping either which I don't think is helping (did you find this?). But I've managed to get 10.30 am as a firm sleeptime & he generally has 45 mins or so but it's hit & miss when or whether he sleeps later in the day. Have you got firm nap times?

[bumbleweed]

oh heck no, naps have always been difficult

she has only rarely napped for more than 30-40 mins

She needs 2 naps per day min at the moment or gets so overtired and grumpy - sometimes will fall asleep on the boob, but much less these days, otherwise its buggy or car - which doesnt work if I need to stay in for some reason or am out and she isnt tired enough when in buggy/car

I think overtiredness due to lack of day-time sleep is a big prob with night-time waking - but I have no advice at all as have totally failed to make real inroads myself

Dd was daddy-resistant at nights too for ages - obviously due to bf and wanting boob. dh would try to settle her to give me a break and she would cry and cry and I would leap out of bed and scream 'oh give her to me then so we can all go back to bloody sleep'. So I know what you are going through there.

Oh how frustrating when you have spent ages getting to sleep and easing of the boob and then they wake up screaming as soon as they touch the cot. I really really feel for you.

I was knackered tho so had to increase dh role massively and she did get used to him. That doesnt help in your situation with your dh being away alot.

Thing is - you have made progress, albeit small step. Stick with your plan, and little by little you are sure to get improvements. I really really hope things get even better for you.

[jabberwocky]

Hi iris66. I tried this book and have suggested it to many others. Ds was a terrible sleeper and the suggestions in this book really helped a lot. Depending on how ingrained the problem is, it may take a while to sort out and of course backsliding can happen. But it really is worthwhile to give it a go.

[iris66]

thanks everso much for your comments. I'm struggling to maintain the belief that it is getting better. Yesterday was a pain as he only had 45 mins in the morning then 30 mins in the afternoon so was totally overtired by 6.30 & wouldn't go down until 8.
Last night was:
8 - 12 asleep in cot
12 - 1 bf(10 mins) then resettle restettle resettle...
1 - 3 asleep in cot
3 - 4.30 bf (5 mins) & attempt to resettle but too knackered to last long
4.30 - 5.30 slept with me
6am - handed him over to DH & crawled into own bed for 3 of hours catch up.
I've written this down so I can compare it with future nights. Were any of your children's patterns like this?

[jabberwocky]

Yep, except I didn't get the 8 - 12 part until he was 9 months old. so you're a months ahead of me

[iris66]

jabberwocky - for you but for me How old is your LO now & how long did it take before he/she stayed asleep after the late feed until morning?

I think I've been struggling more than I should mainly because I'm unable to sleep properly myself until after 11 on 4 out of 7 nights (DD(17) does evening waitressing & doesn't get in until then)
Fingers crossed for tonight being a couple of minutes better than last then!

[jabberwocky]

Wellll, ds has never been a really terrific sleeper so still woke up once in the night until about 2 years old - he's 3 now. One thing that made a really big difference as he got older was not giving milk in the middle of the night. Yours may still be a bit young for that, but it's something to think about later on. Could you catnap on the couch while you wait up for dd? You really need to take advantage of the 8 - 12 time if you can.

[iris66]

Oooooh how annoying. DS went to sleep at 7. Had a bit of a grumble/topup bf/resettle at 8 & has been blasting out the zeds ever since. I woke up at 3 (amazed that he'd not woken) and haven't been able to sleep since!! grrrrr Oh please let this not be a one off for him!

[jabberwocky]

There's the rub with a bad sleeper. You get so used to getting up with them that when they do start sleeping through you have to get your own sleep problems sorted out. Keep going down close to when he does when you can for now. The main thing for you atm is to stave off sleep deprivation.

[momomama]

I'm using the book at the moment too! I found it such a relief to read about people who were in as much of a muddle as me. I'm into co-sleeping and breastfeeding but just feel I can't carry on without better and more restful sleeps myself. I've been trying to introduce the off the nipple thing for over a week now and think it is working very gradually. I've not even moved onto her other suggestions and DD was always in a bedtime routine (for all the good it has done!). DD is still waking up but much less and is definitely going bk over quickly and is not feeding for ages through the night as she was before. It has been hard to maintain resolve though, but as I feel I have no other options. The controlled crying is just unimaginable at the best of times never mind when I feel my eyes are burning through tiredness.I'll be checking on your progress and as you're a bit ahead of me praying for miracles!

[iris66]

momomama - last night was a blip I'm sure! I've only been doing this a week. I'm finding that DS is starting to clamp down when I do the unlatching so I'm having to wedge my finger inbetween his gums at the side instead as soon as his sucking slows to make it uncomfortable (he has 2 top & 2 bottom teeth & I've visions of losing a nipple )

[momomama]

that doesn't sound pleasant at all. My wee angel is unlatching but last night was horrific, she was up every hour!!!!! I'm in work this morning nearly crying with exhaustion. I work three days a week and this is the third week in a row the night before I go back to work she is more or less up at least hourly..... I think I see a pattern, the problem is what to do.

[iris66]

momomama - oh you poor thing. I started back to work today but luckily didn't have to be functional until 10 (self employed)
Well DS's blip was exactly that. he was up at 12 last night & as I'd been up since 3 the morning before i just didn't have the energy to do anything with him so ended up sleeping on the spare bed with him attached until 4 when I woke up & managed to fumble him into his cot.
one thing I have noticed though is that he has got very attached to my dressing gown. DD was the same (it was terry then) & I managed to settle her with an old terry nappy (later called an "umm" and still living under her pillow at 17 but now sewn into the shape of a fish) I've been shoving muslins in my bras for months & putting them in bed with him but he doesn't really seem too fussed but tonight I knotted up the belt of my dressing gown (knotted loads & small so he couldn't wrap it round his neck!) & shoved it in his hand. He couldn't quite decide whether he wanted my boob or the knotted belt so I'm hoping that it may become a substitute for me! fingers crossed eh!!

[iris66]

momomama - how was your DD's night? - hope it was better than monday.
I think I only got up once last night (awful isn't it when you're so pooped you can't even remember if/when you have to get up!!) I know got up to feed DS at 11.30 and I have the sneaking suspicion he didn't wake again until 5.45 when we got up.

[Papillon]

you got up at 5.45!!

got to dash but will come back later and support you x

[momomama]

I feel very guilty, I've hijacked your thread. DD wee bugger, again up every 11/2 hours. I feel awful as she has the cold and I think she was just needing reassurance so although I'm shattered I don't feel quite so bad. I'm ecstatic if you really were only up once. That would be a result. I'm trying to generate a lovey for DD but so far she's not been convinced, it was the same with a dummy when she just looked at me as if I'd gone mad if i thought she was going to be sucked in by that!

[iris66]

not hijacked at all!! - I should have called it a mutual support thread really
lol at your DD's reaction to the dummy. We've tried one on & off in desparation too - DS also gives us disgusted looks.

Hi Papillon - I'm taking advantage of DS's early start to try to ensure he's tired enough to have 2 good sleeps today (and therefore a good night - well, that's the theory - it's not worked yet but I'm ever hopeful )

[Difers]

I am also trying this book out. I started today with extending DS's nap and trying to get him to love a small donkey. Hope you don't mind me gatecrashing thread. Just want encouragement to carry plans though. Could never let him cry like some books prescribe.

[iris66]

Hi Difers - welcome on board (as it were) How old is your LO? I struggle to get DS to nap much too. Though yesterday he got up really early (0545) so I kept him busy until his usual nap time (1030) and he did sleep nearly 1/2 hour longer than usual and had longer in the afternoon so maybe getting up early is his thing (slumps shoulders thinking of no more lie-ins for the next umpty ump years...) if it works to help his nights though I'll be chuffed to bits. How is your LO for naps?

[momomama]

Hiya Difers, glad to have more people to moan to. I AM struggling. Day three of work this week and day three of functioning on very little sleep. DD was up every two hours last night, a marginal improvement on the previous two nights! poor DP had his head bitten off for suggesting he was tired (how dare he!) so he's off to work in a grump and I feel no further forward. I was so hopeful as well
Iris66 how long were you doing the plan before you got some wee successes?

[iris66]

momomama - LOL at your DP. my DH has had to leave for work by 7 the last 2 days & has been grumbling too. It's all I can do to bite my tongue. I'm so tempted to yell "tired? tired? you don't know the bloody meaning of the word...." grr .
This is my second week (I lose track of what I'm doing and when these days so excuse me if I'm vague). DS seems to be going down at night a bit better & sleeping for a bit longer until the night feed (used to wake anytime from 10 but it seems closer to 12/1 now) when I bf lying on the spare bed in his room then fall asleep with him - I was taking him into my bed but figured keeping him in his room may help. He is waking earlier in the morning 5.30/6 so I get him up then but is sleeping more restfully I think up until then (he used to wake every hour or two before. I think I only plugged him in once last night. It's very much a slowly slowly thing isn't it. I'm not having that much luck with getting him off the boob to fall asleep though. How about you?

[iris66]

momomama - are you keeping a diary of when he wakes/feeds/sleeps? the improvements are so slight that it's easy to think you're not getting anywhere and become disheartened. I'm sure you have made progress