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Help, are they meant to scream with gradual retreat?

(20 Posts)
apachepony Fri 07-Feb-14 21:08:12

He's screaming here beside me, standing up in his cot. This is worse than controlled crying. But he no longer feeds to sleep, we have to rock him screaming to sleep, so felt we had to do something. Maybe I would be better leaving the room, doing controlled crying? Maybe my presence is prolonging things?

breatheslowly Fri 07-Feb-14 21:10:25

How old is he?

We did controlled crying, going up from 2 min in 1 min increments and only got to 6 min. It worked really well for us.

If this isn't going to work for you then stop it now, rather than trying for a few nights and then stopping.

apachepony Fri 07-Feb-14 21:34:30

13 months. He's stopped screaming but is now making noises to himself in the cot. I can't quite bring myself to do controlled crying because he's co-slept til now & it seems like too much of a change. Maybe I'll have to though. Going to give it 45 mins, that's 10mins more

breatheslowly Fri 07-Feb-14 21:43:31

It's almost impossible to know what to do as you can't try all of the variants. It is possible to imagine a child finding it harder to go to sleep with gradual retreat - because you're still there. But it is equally possible to imagine it would be better than CC because you are still there as a source of comfort.

With our DD we did CC, but she pretty much slept through once she was asleep and if she woke in the night we normally took her into our bed. She seemed to understand the difference between going to sleep at bedtime and waking up in the middle of the night.

Whatever you do, be consistent and give it a week (to at least be getting better, not to be perfect).

apachepony Fri 07-Feb-14 21:57:01

I gave up. So that hour was pointless. So frustrated.

breatheslowly Fri 07-Feb-14 23:07:45

What is the issue that you are trying to crack? Is it sleeping in his own room, being held/fed to sleep or something else?

apachepony Fri 07-Feb-14 23:27:36

The issue is getting him to sleep before 11pm without him having to be rocked screaming to sleep! I'm actually quite happy to continue co-sleeping if he would just fall asleep at a reasonable hour. He just fell asleep on the boob at 11pm in the end, he was zonked the poor little bean.

WaxyDaisy Fri 07-Feb-14 23:40:25

I hope you are ok OP.

This too will pass. He will be different in a few months. You have not set up habits that can never be changed, but perhaps now is not the right time? If your whole life was a piece of string, the bit where a child needs feeding/rocking/cuddling to sleep is really short, no matter how long it seems to last at the time. Sometimes if you stop fighting it, bearing it becomes easier.

Have a big hug x

JassyRadlett Fri 07-Feb-14 23:44:11

My DS was like this. Gradual retreat a total waste of time, CC a pointless nightmare. Didn't work for his temperament.

Pick up put down has worked consistently well. They know they're not being ignored and it feels like they'll never stay lying down and not crying but suddenly, magically, they do.

Over an hour the first night, 20-40 minutes the next few nights, within a week he went straight down, no tears.

apachepony Fri 07-Feb-14 23:50:37

The problem is we're at the end of tethers. Work is really busy for us both, I'm worried that may be having an impact as he is so excited when he sees us coming home that he just doesn't want to go to sleep. Twice this week he had just fallen asleep only to bounce wide awake when he heard the other parent come through the door...we just have no time at all & we're beginning to snipe at each other. And it can't be good for him to only be sleeping 9 hours a night....

breatheslowly Sat 08-Feb-14 00:03:03

That sounds really tough. What is his pattern of naps during the day and what are your bedtime routines?

Morrigu Sat 08-Feb-14 00:04:50

Gradual retreat didn't work with mine either, or CC. Luckily she co-sleeps ok, not brilliant but I can live with it and it only got to that stage when she dropped naps herself. Does he sleep much during the day? When does his last nap finish?

horsetowater Sat 08-Feb-14 00:16:31

I wouldn't worry too much about the 9 hours. It's probably not the best thing but there will still be a nap in the afternoon.

I think in your case he just wants to bounce about with Mum and Dad in the evening. If that's what he needs at the moment then that's what you should give him. It might be that after a few weeks of him feeling comfortable and relaxed with you in the evenings he will feel more relaxed about sleeping alone anyway.

They go through a second stage separation anxiety at 12 months iirc, this could be exacerbating it. The only way to handle that is the rapid return or completely giving in and going baby led.

horsetowater Sat 08-Feb-14 00:19:36

http://www.nct.org.uk/parenting/separation-anxiety-0

horsetowater Sat 08-Feb-14 00:19:47

www.nct.org.uk/parenting/separation-anxiety-0

apachepony Sat 08-Feb-14 01:19:28

Ok his naps...well we don't follow a 7 to 7 regime as both the going to bed and getting up would be earlier than I would like (we're night birds, I guess he's taken after us!). He gets up around 8ish ( I sometimes let him sleep til after 8.30 if he's been up late the night before), first nap around 10.30/11 until after 12, 2nd nap around 3.20 to 4.20, then ideally I would like to put him down around 8.30/9 but it doesn't work out. I brush his teeth, wash face, kiss to daddy, 2-3 books then breastfeed. He is whingey at that time but the breastfeed seems to give him a second wind and he wants to play for another hour or two! If He is rocked v firmly for 15 mins he screams crying and then falls asleep, so I guess he's tired, but that's physically and mentally tough, it's a horrible way to go to sleep. Then he's sleeping in our bed, maybe it's too big a transition to the cot (he sleeps in the cot during the day with his minder)

horsetowater Sat 08-Feb-14 01:52:29

Have you spoken to the minder about how he gets to sleep with her? If he's the same with her it's probably not separation anxiety (dramatic term). If it is SA then you can treat that problem first or at least stick to a method that will take that into consideration.

Rocking isn't the best idea as it actually stimulates them the minute their head hits the pillow.

breatheslowly Sat 08-Feb-14 09:36:54

I'd think about moving to 1 nap - after lunch. 13 months is quite a typical time to move to 1 nap (judging by DD's nursery).

Is BF after brushing his teeth not bad for his teeth?

Morrigu Sat 08-Feb-14 10:35:14

I would also think about one nap but every child is different and you can only try and see how it goes.

Ds only had one at that age from 1 to about 3pm. Dd 16mo, rarely naps and hasn't from about a year but the odd time she does it's one nap. Unfortunately hers is quite late, I have to wake her up at 5pm for dinner but I take her out for a good walk after dinner to tire her out otherwise experience has shown she will stay up late. Both of them I've had a bedtime of 8pm.

Dd had bad separation anxiety and it showed for me in that she would scream the place down if I even ventured out of the room during the day, thankfully she seems to be coming away from it now.

apachepony Sat 08-Feb-14 10:47:21

Minder holds him in her arms with a bottle and she says he falls asleep easily. When she babysat last Friday he apparently was asleep by 9. Over Christmas and sometimes on a Saturday I let him lie til 9.30 (eg we got up at that time today) and then he has just one nap, going to bed around 8-8.30, but it was a disaster when I asked his minder to do one nap during the week, he was absolutely exhausted.

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