4.5 month old not sleeping more than an hour at night and 15mins during the day

[ng1412]

DS is EBF and we share a room. He can't settle himself to sleep so when he wakes he needs feeding. I am on my knees, I am up at least 3 times each night and never leave his side in the day. I let my DD (now 2yo) cry it out but I think she may have been over 6 months. I can't do it with DS yet can I?

Please help!

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

It's really tough isn't it. Do you think he could be going through the 4 month sleep regression or has this been going on for much longer? There is also a growth spurt at around 16 weeks and there is also a developmental leap coming up, so you are really getting everything at once.

With real of this going on I doubt sleep training will help but there are things you can do to help.

When you feed, are you feeding from both breasts at least once during each feed? Have you tried breast compressions to speed things up?

All of this sounds like normal baby behaviour but it is probably worth getting him checked for tongue tie. I can't do links at the moment but try googling milk matters tongue tie for more info.

Fir he's not sleeping much in the day, where does he sleep? Have you tried putting him in a sling after a feed? He may sleep better for you there and you'll be able to keep up with dc1

Have you tried feeding lying down at night? That might help you get more sleep.

If you do want to read more, have a look at the isis website. This, this and this are all good articles. You might also like the No Cry Sleep Solution and Sound Sleep.

Hope things improve soon

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Sorry for the typos

[CreatureRetorts]

I suspect it's a combination of poor day sleep making him overtired and the sleep regression.

For day naps, I used a combination of the sling and pushchair at this age. So I'd go out in the morning, stick dd in a sling while taking toddler ds out so she'd sleep on the way there and back. Then ds down for a nap and baby dd too (I'd feed and cuddle her in the dark while waiting for ds to sleep). Then out for an afternoon walk and she would sleep again.

She also needed an early bedtime at around 6/6.30pm. Difficult to manage with ds - sometimes i would resort to tv for him or DH would take him while I put dd down.

Sometimes as dd got closer to 6 months, I would feed her, cuddle (in the dark), make sure she was fully winded then pop her in the cot with a seahorse which played music and had a low light. She would fall asleep while I was out of the room trying to settle ds in his room for a nap/bedtime. But if she was overtired it wouldn't work as well, hence early bedtimes.

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Getting out is a really good thing too as the daylight can help with sleep too

[ng1412]

Thanks all, my toddler goes to creche in the afternoons but until then oin the morning it is total chaos after she gets up from her nap.

creature do you mean you put baby in a sling and then toddler in buggy and went out? That would be really hard for me, as I tried it once but couldn't manage the two. Baby is pretty big at 7.2kg and toddler and buggy are a fair weight too. Plus (not wishing to make excuses) we live on a big hill and pushing them both back up would kill me!

Evenings are a problem as like you said having a toddler and a baby to see to takes some doing. I tend to start baby bedtime routine around half 6 but toddler is in the room too as my DH doesn't get home until gone 7pm. Sometimes I can just have got baby to sleep and toddler will shout something suddenly and wake him up.


jilted what are breast compressions? Normally I feed lying on bed (he won't feed in the chair as he screams and arches his back) just feeding from one side.

This baby is such hard work and I am an older mum so absolutely done in. We also have no support network as we are overseas.

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

You've got it really tough, feel for you OP.

There is some info here on breast compressions. Do you ever offer the other side! Feeding from one side only is the advice given to mums who wish to reduce or limit their supply, say for instance if they have oversupply.

If he will only feed lying down and is arching his back and complaining, it could be normal but I really would get him checked for tongue tie. Is there a la Leche league group in your area? If not have a read of this

The stupid ipad will now let me link to milk matters, so here's the info on tongue tie.

Do completely feel for you on the tiredness front, I was nearly 40 when I had dc2 and she was pretty good, it was still really tough. My dc1 had tongue tie and upper lip tie and I thought I would die of exhaustion some days.

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Oh and until you've got him checked for tongue tie and sorted his feeding out, I doubt any sleep training will work. You might be best asking MNHQ to move this to the breast and bottle section. Then hopefully one of the BFCs like tiktok will see it

[ng1412]

jilted I have so much milk that I have never really thought about offering the other side, maybe I should though.

I think we have a leche league nearby, I will have to check it out. I remember seeing their poster in our local hospital.

Is tongue tie something the pediatrician would have picked up as she is very thorough. He only had his 4 month check last week.

I am 43, nearly 44. It is completely overwhelming me and causing friction in our home life as you can imagine. I am a walking, or crawling, advert for not having kids later in life.

[ng1412]

Oh another problem is that he doesn't let me out of his sight for a minute ever! Yesterday I was upstairs feeding for most of the day. I never get anything done like eating or drinking water!

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Is the Paed very experienced with tt? If they just looked in baby's mouth it could have still been missed.

When my dd had been fed she would sleep better in the sling, have you tried doing that?

And yes, find out about and ring your local lll, sounds like you need all the support you can get!

[CreatureRetorts]

Yes baby in sling, toddler in pushchair. That's what I did but I needed a decent sling (I have a manduca which I can use now ds is 22 months) and a decent push chair (something with air tyres like a phil and teds). I also put dd sitting on a recline instead of lying flat from 4/5 months and she would nap. She hated lying flat! I also put dd on her tummy for naps when I was with her.
I feel your pain though - at her worst, dd woke every 20 mins at night (although her naps were ok) and living on poor sleep then having a 2 year old to take care of was horrible.

Dd had tongue tie and reflux as well - have you ruled them out? I also used white noise to mask sounds during sleep (and blackout blinds).

Another thing was having a loose routine helped, vases around my eldest.

[CreatureRetorts]

*based not vases!

[ng1412]

I have never really got on with slings, what do you use? I have quite a bad back.

[RigglinJigglin]

Lurking with interest..... this thread sounds like our house at the moment - DD exactly the same.