Please help desperately sleep deprived :( 10 month old frequent waker

[Babybeesmama]

Any advice at all welcome...

DS 10 months has always been a crap sleeper - he slept through - as in 11-5am about 2 weeks once but never again.

Anyway I'm back at work now & I think we are realising we just aren't coping with the sleep deprivation.

He is a rubbish napper if not in pram, tends to have about 45 mins in morning & 1hr 45 in afternoon if I'm lucky. Got good bedtime routine & is bottle fed.

I'm doing gradual retreat at bedtimes which is working - I just sit next to cot at moment & he's usually asleep within 20 mins. But the wakings are different every night. Last night he woke at 10pm, 1am, 3am 4am . He had full bottle at 10 & at 430am when we didn't know what to do. The other wakings he settles easily by just sshing & patting.

Feel so tired & is affecting family life now, have DD who is 3 who is tired all day as DS is disturbing her sleep.

Any advice welcome. X

[minipie]

poor you, being back at work with that kind of night must be knackering.

AFAIK 45min plus 1 hr 45 is plenty for 10 mo (a bit less would also be fine) so it doesn't seem likely to be overtiredness.

Can he self settle? I presume not if you're dng gradual retreat at bedtime? If he can't then i would guess that is the problem, he is basically looking for you to get him back to sleep every time he stirs during the night between deep sleep phases. if he learns to self settle then hopefully the wakings should stop also, as he'll just put himself back into the next sleep cycle.

how are you getting on with the gradual retreat? do you think self settling is a long way off or likely to happen soon? if you think it's a long way off, the only quicker way to get to self settling is CC... but that's not for everyone (worked wonders for us though)

[CoteDAzur]

I would cut out night feeds (incl. the 10 PM one). At 10 months, he doesn't actually physically need to feed through the night.

Stop night feeds and he will adjust within a few days, eating/drinking more in the day. He will also "forget" the meal times at night and sleep through.

[Babybeesmama]

We had a go at cc minipie, did intervals of 2,4,6,8 etc ... He kept it up for 2.5 hours when I decided enough was enough :(. I may give it another go at some point tho as I think you're right. Stinging eyes this afternoon & I want to cry! X

[SwishSwoshSwoosh]

I'd co sleep probably then you might not have to get up.

I wouldn't cut night feeds until after age 1 at least.

A bottle at 10 then 4:30 would be ok if the middle bit was solid sleep, for me.

[sydenhamhiller]

Ah, it's tough isn't it? DC3 was a non sleeper and nearly lost my mind. She'd only sleep about 30 min during day. Then at about 10 months it all sort of fell into place, with a little bit of help from me, I realise.

I had been breast feeding on demand, and from 8 months it was F bottle at 7, then only drink of water, and in about 2 weeks she went from about 5 wakings a night to one. And I think settled nights led to more settled days: she now has a pattern of 2 naps a day.

Unlike older 2, she'd do 90 min, then 40 min... By one, they often start to drop their morning sleep, so think your son isn't doing too badly in terms of day naps (sorry!)

I think the other thing I realised was that I didn't want her waking older 2, so she'd got used to me soothing her immediately. I just started leaving her a couple minutes ( literally about 2) before bounding out of bed, and that helped. (As, annoyingly MiL and DM said it would!).

Good luck- it's hard to see an end to sleep deprivation in the middle of it.

[CoteDAzur]

My two DC's paediatrician told us that a normal baby is perfectly capable of going without a feed in the night and hence doesn't need night feeds probably after about 4 months, definitely after 6 months.

If you claim to know better, may we learn of your qualifications?

[SwishSwoshSwoosh]

Is that to me? I simply gave an opinion, same as you. What of your qualifications?

[CoteDAzur]

It's not my "opinion". It is what I have learned from our paediatrician. (Here in France, all babies are followed by paediatricians with monthly visits until 6 months, then yearly visits)

You replied to it saying you wouldn't cut night feeds of a baby before 12 months (at least). It sounds like you think babies under 1 year of age physically need to feed through the night.

Based on what? I would be interested to know.

[SwishSwoshSwoosh]

Based on what I did, I never claimed otherwise. Why so aggressive?

[frissonpink]

My two DC's paediatrician told us that a normal baby is perfectly capable of going without a feed in the night and hence doesn't need night feeds probably after about 4 months, definitely after 6 months.

Agree. Always a bit when I see how many babies are still getting fed in the night (and they always tend to be the ones keeping the mums awake!)

Also agree with poster who said it's the self setting you need to work on.

We stopped 11pm feed at 4 months. We haven't fed through the night (ie after midnight) since she was 12 weeks or so. We went through about 2 weeks of lots of waking in the night, during which you have to be firm and it's harder for you than for them imo.

Go in, pick up, give a hug, give some water and then put back down. Don't make eye contact. Don't talk to them. Your actions will speak louder than words. Also don't rush in. Wait a little first.

I think your daytime naps sound just fine. It's about what my 9 month old does.

I'm fairly certain my DD wakes up plenty of times during the night, but she doesn't wake me until 6am. Once they realise that you're there but you're not really going to do anything other than give them a cuddle and some water, they'll quickly lose interest and settle themselves! Unless of course something major is up, but trust me, the cry is different and you would know.

[CoteDAzur]

"Based on what you did" doesn't mean anything re when a normal baby doesn't physically need to feed through the night. You may have given your DC night bottles until they are 5.

OP has a full time job and is knackered with sleep deprivation. Her child is almost a year old so clearly doesn't need the night bottles. For her sake, I needed to point out that your "wouldn't cut out night feeds until at least 1 yr old" isn't based on anything remotely scientific.

I'm sorry if you think this has anything to do with being aggressive.

[SwishSwoshSwoosh]

Op asked for any ideas. I gave mine. I am allowed to do that.

Op didn't say she only wanted secondhand ancient advice from French doctors, did she? If op had said that I wouldn't have posted.

[CoteDAzur]

"Ancient"? You are getting desperate.

I think you understood what I said so no need to beat this dead horse any further.

[SwishSwoshSwoosh]

I don't know why you're so up yourself, honestly.

[Babybeesmama]

Thank you for all of the advice. I personally think all babies are different with feeds etc. there's a lot going on for DS at mo with starting nursery etc so I might wait for night weaning for now. Going to reduce the 10pm feed & live in hope! Xx

[minipie]

Gosh this thread did get a bit sidetracked didn't it

Anyway OP sorry to hear CC didn't work for you...2.5 hours of screaming sounds awful. it is worth trying again at some point I think tho can understand the reluctance! Just one thought re the CC - we found that more frequent checks actually seemed to upset dd more, so we did a version where we went in after 2 mins, but only 2 minutes of really upset crying - if it was more 'protesting' it didn't count towards the 2 minutes, and if she calmed herself, the 2 minutes restarted. hope that makes sense!

[Aworryingtrend]

I would agree that if you were to cut down his night feeds it is likely ge would eat more during the day and therefore sleep better at night.
I don't think his naps during the day are the causs of the night waking problem-my ds is 9.5 months and will nap for 40 minutes in the morning and an hour only ib the afternoon but sleeps through at night. (not intended as a boast at all just to illustrate not all babies need very long naps in the day).

[Babybeesmama]

Thanks aworrying, it's good to know short naps are common!

Minipie - it did get sidetracked alright! I agree with maybe trying the cc again, but like you we fine he gets more upset each time we leave the room.

He did a bit better last night 7pm-2am had bottle then but wouldn't settle so co slept (very uncomfortably ) till 530 - bit early!

If I'm going to night wean would I be best gradually reducing the volume of milk I give him each night? Or some other way?

Thanks

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Sorry to go back onto the inappropriate side track but Cote is coming out with the sort of 'advice' that makes parents feel like complete failures and like their DC's sleeping patterns are somehow their 'fault'.

Cote A paediatrician is an expert in the diagnosis and treatment of juvenile illnesses. They have no more business advising on sleeping patterns and night feeding (in a well, normally developing infant) than the postman and a good doctor will acknowledge this. It's the cocky ones who think a medical degree endows them with a knowledge of all things who will peddle urban myths like they're fact. I can assure you there is no evidence to 'prove' that babies don't need to be fed at night past the age of four months. If you want genuine evidence, grounded in population-based trials, (and this definitely applies to you too, OP) go to The ISIS Website. Frequent night time waking is NORMAL, and has nothing to do with what parents have or have not done. Night time feeds are NECESSARY well into the second year for many babies. Cote Yours obviously managed without night feeds from a very young age, and responded to sleep training - lucky, lucky you. That most definitely does not apply to all babies and I hope your paediatrician didn't make too many other parents feel completely inadequate with their outdated opinions, but I'm pretty sure they probably did.

Sorry OP - please have a look at the website above as it gives me a lot of reassurance during my endless sleepless nights!

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Should clarify - there is 'evidence' that infants should manage without night feeds from four months, but mainly from your Weissbluths/Ferbers/She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named et al who are, coincidentally, also trying to sell books. Go with the impartial evidence on the website.

[minipie]

I think it depends on your definition of "needing" to be fed.

Are there many many babies who want to be fed at night, and wake crying for a feed, well after 6+ months? of course. would those babies starve if you stopped feeding them at night? probably not. would they be very upset about it for a while? yes probably.

I expect the paediatrician is saying that the baby won't starve if not fed at night. He/she isn't saying they'll be happy about it...!

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Based only on my own experience of multiple rounds of sleep training (NCSS, CC, GR, CIO, PUPD you name it, I've done it) with 14mo DS, adding up to months worth of nights listening to a screaming child and not feeding him, he still cannot go from 7 til 7 without a feed. He won't waste away without one, no. But he also won't sleep for longer than 15 minutes between hour(s) long bouts of screaming which isn't healthy for any of us. That's a need to be fed by my definition.

[minipie]

ouch Elphaba! that sounds gruelling. sounds pretty clear that your DS needs to be fed...

[CoteDAzur]

Yes, minipie, that is what I have said. A normal 10-month-old doesn't physically need to feed through the night. He wakes up because it is a habit to feed at that time. A habit that can be changed.

Tabitha is talking about sleep rather than feed because she is carrying a grudge from a previous thread.

[CoteDAzur]

Elphaba, rather.