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no cry sleep support thread anyone?

(73 Posts)
sparklekitty Wed 03-Apr-13 15:22:18

Ok so my DD is 6mo, ebf and co-sleeps atm. She wakes every 2 hours if I'm lucky and I'm shattered!

After reading lots of posts recommending NCSS I finally read it and have plan for getting our little pickle into her own room and sleeping 12 hours longer than she does now.

I've ordered a camping mattress for her room so I can sleep in there to start and waiting for a lovely light show thingy to arrive. Once Mr Royal Mail has delivered these magic items I'm ready to go.

However, as my DD wont do more than 10 mins in her cot atm I am more than aware that things will probably get much harder before they get better.

Anyone fancy a support thread to keep up spirits and share good and not so good experiences?

DrMcDreamysWife Wed 03-Apr-13 18:38:14

Ooo yes please!

My dd is 7mo (tomorrow) and ebf. She spends half night in cot and half with me in the bed next to her ( while my dh sleeps next door in our infinitely more comfortable bed). She wakes A LOT. And all a bit random. She will occasionally do a 4 hour stretch but more often it's 1-2 hours. I don't always need to feed her, she will go back to sleep after a cuddle sometimes...

Anyway can't stand the thought of letting her cry. I have bought the book and I really would like her to go longer and let me sleep next door with my husband!

sparklekitty Wed 03-Apr-13 19:19:44

oh dreamy, that sounds like what I'll be doing soon. Not looking forward to it but hoping it helps/works. I cannot do CC with her.

Your dd sounds very similar to mine. Sometimes she'll wake up crying and I'll move her to feed then she'll drift off again, almost like she just wanted a change of position.

Its great that your dd is in the cot half the night. My dd won't go more than a coupld of hours in her bedside crib sad

Atm I'd kill for a 4 hour stretch! A few weeks ago she did 2 weeks of waking at 1am, 4am then 7am. Proper routined, I thought we'd cracked it but then the dreaded cold hit and we're back to square one, boo!

I keep thinking long term, in a few months I'll be in bed with my husband on our own sleeping for more that 2 hours at a go smile

DrMcDreamysWife Wed 03-Apr-13 20:05:19

It's been some doing getting her in the cot at all. I'm currently sat next to cot with the lullaby sheep blaring and my hand on her back praying she's asleep. Lets just hope it lasts!! Would not be surprised if she woke in exactly 40 minutes looking for more bloody boob!!

Yep long term goals I think. A friend from my antenatal group did controlled crying with her ds born day before my dd. within a week of cc he is sleeping through the night. 8 till 7. To be fair I have never heard him cry. Even at his most hungry as a newborn it was a little grumble where as my dd hits 0-60 in a heartbeat. I can't leave her sad

Selenium Thu 04-Apr-13 08:41:25

I'd like to join you too, if you don't mind! My ds is a little younger than yours at 4 months but I'd like to start gradually getting him used to his cot as he has been cosleeping with me since birth and now seems to need me beside him to get back to sleep. The cot is right next to the bed with one side off but he still doesn't like it! I'm a bit worried that the night feeds are becoming more frequent and he is just having small feeds to get himself back to sleep. I do love cosleeping but my poor dh has been relegated to the spare room and we'd like to get ds eventually into his own room and my dh back in ours!

I've read the NCSS but not really sure which ideas to start with - apart from the one about not feeding completely to sleep. Are you just selecting a few ideas that appeal and trying those? Hope we can find something that works!

DrMcDreamysWife Thu 04-Apr-13 09:47:49

Hi selenium, welcome!

I've been trying the 'pantley pull off' trying to get dd not to fall asleep on boob. I think it's working some of the time. Half the problem is I fall asleep with her still latched on for the middle of the night feeds!!?

I've also been trying to use a 'lovey' a certain cuddly toy we only use at sleep time. And I've been doing playtimes in the cot during the day to show her it's a nice fun place. All things I got from the book. She is definitely warming to the cot. She doesn't wake the second I put her in it anymore...just after an hour!!!

Can't tell you how many times she woke last night....too many to count!!

Selenium Thu 04-Apr-13 11:07:41

Hello DrMcDreamysWife (love the name, by the way!) Ooh yes, the 'Pantley pull off' was going to be the main one I'm going to try. You're right though - it's easier to do this for the bedtime feed and then difficult to do for night feeds. I always fall asleep too as I feed lying down and sometimes lose count of how many night feeds I've actually done as it's all a blur. Ds used to sleep for 7-8 hours at the start of the night but it's all gone horribly wrong for about the last 6-8 weeks (first awakening is now at 10-11pm after bedtime at about 8pm!) Maybe this is the 4 month growth spurt/sleep regression so I want to be gentle with him in case he really needs those night feeds - I suspect not though as he doesn't actually drink that much for most of the feeds!

Glad your dd likes her cot better now! We've been given a little blankie thing so perhaps I'll start introducing that too in case ds adopts it! I've also changed his sheets for softer flannel ones, tried to make sure he takes his daytime naps in several different places (pushchair, car, cot, etc) and repeating the same mini bedtime routine, all suggestions from the book Not sure any of that is working though! Trouble is, I read the book a few weeks ago and all made sense at the time, but now I think I need to reread it as forgotten a lot of it in my sleep deprived state!

My dd found her thumb quite early on so used that to settle herself to sleep, which was much easier!

Fluttershy Thu 04-Apr-13 11:59:25

Count me in... Just got that book!

sparklekitty Thu 04-Apr-13 14:38:50

I was planning on using the PPO, although I do this a bit already anyway. My DD already has a lovey, a bunny comforter from Jojo. I plan on doing all the phases once shes a bit more settled in her cot.

I did my sleep log last night. I'll post some of the details:

Bed 9pm, took 1 hour to get to sleep, dropped off 9.53

Woke 22.45
Fed, slept 22.48
Total 45 mins

Woke 1.45
Fed, slept 1.55
Total 3 hours smile

Woke 3.15
Fed, slept 3.18
Total 1.15 hours

Woke 5.20
Fed, slept 5.27
Total 2 hours

Woke 6.30
Cuddled, slept 6.35
Total 1 hour

Woke 7.20
Fed, slept 7.25
Total 45 mins

Woke 8.10. Gave up and got up.

I'm tired! I already know its the feeding to sleep I need to tackle so not logging tonight as its too depressing!

Nicknamefail Thu 04-Apr-13 15:46:08

Sparklekitty, are you me posting, and I have just forgotten because I am so tired? I think you have a copy of my baby anyway.

I was going to start, but dd has been grizzly today and I think her first tooth is coming, so maybe not the time to start a change. Last night dd woke up every 45 mins until 1am, but then managed 3 hours. In my bed again though.

Are people doing a move out of the bed and trying not to feed to sleep at the same time, or crack one problem first?

Good luck all.

sparklekitty Thu 04-Apr-13 17:40:03

Nickname - this was all in my bed, she co-sleeps not for long tho

She is still recovering from the tail end of a cold and I'm still waiting for the camping mattress to arrive. I'm thinking the beginning of next week, that way I can have some catch up sleep over the wknd.

I'm dreading it as I know it'll be worse before it gets better. Boo

ElphabaTheGreen Thu 04-Apr-13 20:26:17

Hello all - I've popped over from the Misery Loves Company thread which has been rolling for a while. Our babies are a touch older (mine's one of the youngest at 10 months) but if you want any more sympathetic ears, we're there. We've all tried everything, in my case even - in utter desperation - CC. To my devastation and horror it didn't work and I'll be fecked if I'm trying it again. We've adopted the motto that, when it comes to sleeplessness, you've just got to ride the mo fo out!

I've gone through NCSS pretty closely and I've had a modicum of success with it, in that DS will now do the fabled going down 'sleepy but awake' in his cot, thanks to a combination of PP and the very gradual retreat. He's also enamoured of his lovey which he cuddles closely all night and is happy a lot of the time in his cot after letting him lie there or sit there with some quiet toys during the day. Sadly, it has done sweet diddly squat for his wake-ups - he will wake up 40 minutes after first going to sleep, then every two hours (at least - gets to about hourly wake ups from 3am, then every 20 mins or so from 5am) thereafter. He's followed this pattern since he was about three months so I'm a bit tired. He won't settle for his dad, so I have to do all the wake-ups. And I work full-time. No, really, I do.

I'll always get him to start the night in his cot, then I'll usually co-sleep from around midnight just to try and maximise my own sleep. I have had a few nights, though, where he's gone happily back into his own cot after every wake up, and I've actually woken up next to DH shock

What he will do now, though, which is a definite improvement since NCSS is on the very, very frequent occasions when has a cold with a persistent cough is he won't wake himself up fully with coughing. He will go back to sleep which in itself is an absolute bloody godsend - I had a few months there where I'd just get him off to sleep, then ten minutes later he'd start coughing I'd want to hurl myself out of the window and I'd have to start the laborious process again of getting him back to sleep.

So I shall lurk with interest to see how everyone here goes in case you come up with any cunning variations or tricks which I can try myself!

PS OP, looking at your timetable - have you tried an earlier bedtime? That was something that made a significant difference to my DS around 4-5 months. He went to sleep much more quickly when I started his bedtime routine at 6:30, probably because he wasn't overtired. Nine times out of ten, he's now asleep in his cot by 7pm. Before this, I was starting his routine at 7:30, and I couldn't get him into his cot until 9pm at the very earliest because he was taking so long to settle.

Nicknamefail Thu 04-Apr-13 22:06:32

Tonight I set the target of dd staying in cot until midnight. She managed 7 until 8, then nothing, not post breastfeed, not even when I half climbed in the cot with her.

So, at 9.30, I abandoned the attempt, and cuddled her to sleep on my bed. She is obviously going to be there all night. Dp a little disheartened by this. I am not feeling too bad, as I thought this would happen.

On a brighter note, I did whip my nipple out before she was quite asleep at bedtime though. Progress?

Goodkingwalkingslass Thu 04-Apr-13 22:21:46

Right I'm going to join you lovely lot. Ds is 8.5 months, co-sleeps and does not, repeat does not, fall asleep without a nipple in his mouth unless in car, pushchair or sling. OH starting to make noises about getting him into a cot. I've no idea how to achieve this. Ds just started crawling so I'm getting worried about him falling out of bed in the time between when he goes to bed and when we join him. It's all very tricky! Not sure if I should admit I actually do love sleeping with him! Especially the wake up smiles!

Nicknamefail Thu 04-Apr-13 22:25:49

Hello goodking. I couldn't believe dd fell asleep without a nipple lending a hand today. Although she was 99% asleep when I stealthed it out, so not amazing. I will try again tomorrow. I am not even going to try with naps yet, as I am convinced dd sleeps marginally better if she has napped better, and she won't she won't nap well if I have to fight her, no cry sleep solution or not!

DrMcDreamysWife Fri 05-Apr-13 09:35:59

Morning all!!

elphaba we' e crossed paths before in the sleep section, so sorry things haven't improved much for you and you are amazing to now work full time as well. I'm back to work at 11months so please sleep gods let her be better then!

HV came yesterday and suggested cc. I said nope not desperate enough yet, what else you got?! She said to do bedtime an hour earlier to aim to get her down before 7 rather than 8.

So we tried this....

7.20 in cot asleep
8.30 awake, cuddled, lullaby on back in cot

Then woke at 10, 10.30, 1.15, 3.30, 5.30, 6,30 and 8.30

I fed her everytime from 10.30 onwards...booo,
I gave her to my dh at 6.30 as I desperately needed a bit of sleep.
She was in her cot until the 1.15 feed after which I fell asleep with her in my bed ;(

I cried on dh at 6.30 as I was so tired and disappointed at how crap she is...

sparklekitty Fri 05-Apr-13 14:00:56

Well last night was a bit of a better one.

I started with an earlier bedtime and a slightly different routine. She fell asleep feeding on my lap in her room (rather than laying down in our bed). She woke after the dreaded 45mins and I fed her just in case she was hungry then she woke about half an hour later. At this point I'd decided that I wasn't going to feed her for 3 hours (I know she can go that long at night as she did for 3 weeks) so cuddled and stroked her head shing and saying 'it's ok'. She grizzled and cried, horrid mummy for about 2 mins then fell asleep for 3 hours!

I noticed that she woke and settled herself by stroking either me or her bunny quite a few times. I did make a point of feeding her when she'd hit that 3 hour point. So a better night but more than likely a one off.

The dreaded mattress arrived today. I'm giving myself the wknd and will start on mon with the 'in her room' thing.

I've decided that I'm going to try a few nights of putting her in the cot when shes asleep first before trying the sleepy but awake thing.

I'm really hoping it works. I guess if it doesn't I'll have to suck it up ad accept shitty sleep till goodness knows when.

McDreamy - I know how you feel, poor DH had me in floods before work yesterday, think he's starting to worry about me, bless him.

ElphabaTheGreen - interesting what you said about CC as I've been led to believe its the miracle cure for non sleepers (my mum had to do it with me, all be it at 2) I feel I maybe getting my karma for being a terrible sleeper as a baby sad

sparklekitty Fri 05-Apr-13 14:07:05

ElphabaTheGreen - just realised I didn't answer your question about earlier bedtime.

Last night we were in bed by 8.10 which seemed great. I want to slowly move it forward but atm she needs me with her as she won't settle at all if she can't see me and I'm a little reluctant to go to bed sooner than 8. Our bedtime routine starts at about 7.15ish now with bath (together to help me relax too, plus lovely skin to skin time) pj's and grobag, cuddles with bunny while I read a few books then feed to sleep atm. I made a point of doing it all in her room last night so small step but a step non the less smile

I'm hoping once she can settle after waking without me there I'll move it forward again closer to 7.

SamraLee Fri 05-Apr-13 14:50:09

My daughter is 9 months in a few days. I'm in a similar situation although with the help of the No Cry Sleep solution book we managed to move from 6-7 wake-ups to 3-4. If she wakes in the night she demands to be breastfed and the few times where I was completely fed up and just needed my husband to take over she cried and cried, holding her arms out to me and saying mama, it was heartbreaking. Sometimes she will take a dummy which is helpful and normally falls asleep with a dummy when she goes down for the night, but not for her wake-ups.

We have her cot pushed up to the bed and she goes down in that at about 7pm and normally sleeps until I come to bed at about 9:30/10pm. I was worried she'd roll out of the cot and then roll out of the bed, she hasn't and when she does wake up she just cries and waits for me to come and get her. I was able to get her to sleep in the cot with lots of gradual retreats and slowly introducing the cot to her.

We tried to introduce a lovey, but it doesn't work she picks it up and throws it when I try to give it to her. I do keep trying new things and I think that I finally found one that she likes.

I've sort of given up on trying to get more sleep and just let her breastfeed in the middle of the night when she wakes up. If I don't let her breastfeed she just screams and trys to breastfeed from anything she can, my arm or belly are popular favorites.

I'm happy to share in the misery. Worst part for me is that when she spends the night at her grandma's house she goes down in the travel cot, wakes once for a quick cuddle then back to sleep until morning. She has never done this for me...envy

ohmentalnessisme Fri 05-Apr-13 15:08:32

Can I join please? I just got this book. My dd is 11mo and still doesn't sleep for more than about 2 hours at a time! She spends most of the night in bed with me because otherwise I would get no sleep at all. She seems to only ever go into light sleep and wakes as soon as I try to put her in her cot or even just when my nipple leaves her mouth. I am desperate for a good night's sleep and some time with dh so am really hoping this works for us as I can't bring myself to do cc.

PenelopeChipShop Fri 05-Apr-13 18:43:57

I could have written goodking's post, with the exception that my ds does sleep in his cot in his room from bedtime at 7 til his first wake up, usually 9.30/ 10pm. At that point I fall into our bed exhausted, DH grabs ds from the cot for a quick cuddle hello (he's often working late) then deposits ds's cross little face opposite my boobs at which point it transforms and the tears instantly stop. I latch him on, we fall asleep together and then he helps himself all night! Some nights I am lucky and he doesn't cry all night, though he always feeds, but some nights he wakes for no apparent reason and I have to get up and rock him back to sleep then try to get back in bed holding him . Woe betide me if I try to put him in the cot after 10pm! I was reading NCSS this morning and have resolved to start trying soon ( ds has a bit of a cold at the mo so will just wait for that to clear) so this thread is well timed for us!

Elphaba sorry to hear you're still going through it even now you're back at work. I recognise you from several sleep threads a few months back.

ElphabaTheGreen Fri 05-Apr-13 20:14:10

CC is most definitely not the miracle cure for non-sleepers. I can't tell you how awful it is to be desperate enough to try it, when nothing else has worked, and then not have it work at all. DS would scream for 1.5 to 2 hours, then sleep for 40-45 minutes then we'd have that cycle on repeat all night. It went on for six nights with no change whatsoever. It was absolutely fucking hideous and unless someone has a crystal ball and can guarantee me that if I were to do it again it would work within the three nights it seems to for other people, there's no way I'm doing it again. I wish I'd never done it but I was (and still am) so desperate for something to work. I'd never, ever judge anyone for doing it - and I have can come out with guns blazing to defend peoples' choice to do it if debates about it get nasty - because it can be very effective for some people. But I wish I'd heard from more people for whom it hadn't worked before trying it as I could have saved myself a lot of heartache.

We also tried the horrible version of gradual withdrawal where you sit by the cot while they cry. That did get us down to three wake-ups a night, after three horrific weeks of endless, endless crying (mine and DS's) but as soon as he got a cold, he was worse than he ever had been. He would sleep nowhere but on me and was waking up hourly and has never again gone back to three wake-ups a night.

Moral of the story is: leaving them to cry is not the sure fix it's made out to be, and even if it does work, you may need to keep repeating it after illness, teething etc. Ugh.

I've come to the conclusion that some babies are just more strongly connected than others to the way babies are biologically designed to sleep - with their mothers, with free access to boobs. The difficulty is not the baby's sleep, but the modern lifestyle into which we try to fit them - a cot, in a separate room, with mothers who have to work. I'm no attachment parent by any stretch, but the longer this sleep thing goes on, the more convinced I am that that particular theory has legs.

<Elphaba wanders off nodding and murmuring sagely, searching hopefully for chocolate>

Goodkingwalkingslass Fri 05-Apr-13 20:34:29

Well we stayed at my mums house last night. Whether it was the different bed or Ds getting a cold and being a bit mucousy but we didn't have a great night. He wanted to feed loads and was very unsettled all night. My mum thinks I need to get him into the cot ASAP but I'm totally buying in to your theory Elphaba, just wish I could convince my well meaning friends and family with it too!

sparklekitty Fri 05-Apr-13 20:45:12

I'm with you elphaba, I truly think that babies are programmed to stay as close to you as possible at all times. I think our problem is our lifestyle. If we didn't have work etc to think about feeding every 2 hours might not be such a killer!

I was hoping that the closer I kept my dd the more secure shed feel and would gradually be able to be more independent. It's worked in all other areas of her/our life except sleep. I guess babies are at their most vulnerable then so it's the hardest one to stop.

Sorry, sleep deprived ramble over.

I'm currently in bed with our dd who has been fast asleep or the past hour and now wants feeding. I was keeping bedtime for about 8 but she had 3 decent naps today then was getting tired just before 7 so I started bedtime.

I'm going to try and hold our feeding her till 11.39 now

SamraLee Fri 05-Apr-13 21:08:22

Well said Elphaba.

It can get frustrating when all you want is some sleep and the baby just wants sleep, but neither of you seem to be able to do it. Sometimes I just want to chuck all the theories out the window and just let the baby do as she pleases so she'll be happy usually on days I actually get some sleep and other days I'm clinging desperately to them, hoping they'll work some day. The belief I usually hold strong is that by 3 she should at least be sleeping through the night, mostly. My husband's brother didn't sleep through until he was 7 though...Which totally ruins my positive thinking.

Good luck sparkle I hope it all goes well for you.

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