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Misery loves company: anyone want to join me on a support thread for those desperate and demoralised by their 8/9/10 mo sleep?

(1000 Posts)
Suchanamateur Tue 11-Dec-12 14:36:13

Bloody sleep regression. It's like 4 months all over again but worse because it felt (briefly) like we were getting somewhere. Feck. Anyone else want to share tales of woe or is it (a) just me or (b) way too depressing to post about..?

lucylookout Mon 04-Feb-13 15:04:45

Hi Stitch and dogandbeth, thanks for the welcome.

Dogandbeth, I hope you managed to get some sleep and that the meeting went well today.

I have a few lot of questions I'd like to ask of those further down the line.

I have a DS1 too who is 5. I was quite militant about not co sleeping with him. He was still a pretty atrocious sleeper and I ended up doing cc with him (I know it works for some people, and he did sleep better after it, but I still regret it and won't be doing it with DS2). So I have ended up co sleeping half the night with ds2 because it seems to be the only way to get any sleep. BUT I don't know whether it's a temporary solution to the problem or is in fact part of the problem. DS2 is CMPI and definitely used to be quite uncomfortable during the night with gas and digestion but I get the distinct feeling that now he wakes up out of habit and would just rather be in bed with me. Those cosleepers amongst you, do you think your dc would sleep better if they stayed in their own cot all night?

DS2 also naps very little (3 x 30 minutes throughout the day). For those of you whose nighttime sleep has improved, did the naps get better first? Did you do anything to improve/lengthen them, or did it all just start falling into place <hopeful>?

Have any of you done any sleep training? I have a NCSS plan although seem to be stuck at one stage of it and we're even regressing slightly. I've been reading the 'what worked for me' thread which is essentially gradual retreat and think I might try it as even though there probably will be tears, you are always there to comfort the dc. The thing is I think it'll work best once I decide to night wean and once I decide to stop co sleeping. I imagine that'll be around the 9/10 month mark for me (if things haven't improved by themselves by then).

I'm taking DS2 to dr tomorrow to try to rule out any other physical reasons why he might be waking up so often (he's got nappy rash above his willy that has turned a bit eczema looking). Also want to try to rule out any other dietary intolerances (his poo is often quite green, but that could be because he eats so much avocado!?) but he's such a cheerful chappy during the day I think he's OK. He just seems to enjoy his nightly shenanigans.

Sorry for the essay. Better go. This is one of my precious 30 minutes to myself while he naps!

DogandBeth Mon 04-Feb-13 19:20:55

Hi Lucy I managed a few hours ta and meeting was fine, I think things always seem a lot worse in the middle of the night. I co sleep with dd which is prob not ideal but I got so fed up of getting up and down and getting her in and out of the cot all night that it seemed like the best solution. I also did this with ds who then transferred ok to his own room and bed although having issues now but this is quite a long time after so don't think it's related? Am starting to get fed up with co sleeping though and I think it may be making the night waking worse as it could be habit (although dd is a big girl with a big appetite) sorry this prob doesn't answer your questions really.

HearMyRoar Mon 04-Feb-13 19:49:18

Gosh, new people! How exciting grin

Lucy We cosleep with dd and don't even bother with the cot at all. In fact it will be going on eBay next weekend as currently it is just taking up space and we've decided that dd will almost certainly transfer better straight into a bed or mattress on the floor then a cot when the time is right. I do sometimes wonder if she would sleep better on her own but 1) it would need to be a pretty darn phenomenal improvement to make it worth me having to get out of bed in the night, and 2) cosleeping is really the norm throughout the world (and of course historically) and I just find it hard to believe that something so common could really be the disaster that so many people in this country seem to make out. But they are just my thoughts on the matter.

I have booked an appointment for dd to go to the gp next Wednesday so if her sleeping and belly issues magically improve before then I can always cancel. If not i'm going to ask them to arrange for some food intolerance testing. I just can't believe that this amount of obvious discomfort can be normal.

dog I seem to remember evenings being particularly bad around that age. I thought maybe it had something to do with starting weaning as it must be a shock to their little systems to suddenly have to deal with actual food rather then just milk. It did get better and we can now watch films again in the evening...sometimes all the way through in one sitting (providing it is short and we get the timing right). Crazy times in the roar household grin

ElphabaTheGreen Mon 04-Feb-13 20:52:36

I just posted a really long response and this fucking piece of shit crock of gobshite MN iPhone App LOST IT! angry

moojie Mon 04-Feb-13 21:00:54

Just spotted this thread on active convos and so wish I had seen it a few months ago! Ds2 is almost 10 months and I think we are coming out the other side! Awful sleeping for about 2-3 months. On and off which is hard as never knowing if he will sleep at night or not. However the last week he has slept every night! Still not able to settle himself at bedtime although does for his naps and he still wakes once before 10 but it is a massive improvement. I didn't really change anything and resisted other peoples kind suggestions that he needed formula (EBF). I just wanted to say that there is light at the end of the tunnel but I'm not entirely convinced we are all the way through it yet!

ElphabaTheGreen Mon 04-Feb-13 21:02:07

To summarise what I eloquently and wittily wrote earlier:

- co-sleeping seems to make my DS sleep longer sometimes than he does in his cot
- naps make diddly-squat difference to his night sleep. Nothing has ever 'fallen into place'. Not even remotely.
- we've done every single variant of sleep training in existence, from PUPD to CC but none of it has worked. We've revisited NCSS in the past few weeks which might have explained the longer sleeps with slightly fewer wake ups we've been having, but then these might have happened anyway.
- His sleep was Shitty McShitpants last night (six wake-ups and on the boob continuously from 4:30am until I had to get up at six)
- Nevertheless, I survived my first day back at work relatively unscathed, even if I do feel like I've got cotton wool stuffed into my skull and I'm not nearly as sharp as I used to be.
- Antibiotics have worked really quickly. Hot boob is almost gone and I don't feel like death on toast anymore.

<stalks off throwing dark looks and curses at MN's pathetic attempt at technological progress>

ElphabaTheGreen Mon 04-Feb-13 21:04:47

Oh, and welcome dog and lucy. I'm not usually such a grump.

StitchAteMySleep Mon 04-Feb-13 21:56:24

Hello everyonesmile

Glad your meeting went ok dogandbeth. I semi co-slept with dd1 on bad nights in a single bed in her room and did find at some point that she was waking more than necessary for comfort. We decided DH would go in and offer water only between midnight and 6am, which took about a week to work, but she did stop bothering to wake. That was around 20 months old though, I do remember the 14-17 month period being really bad for teething.

Lucylookout I found that the waking was worst in that 6-8 month period when they are getting used to new food and teething. I have been in the ride it out camp for both mine. Dd1 (3.5) has slept all night since I stopped breastfeeding at night around 20 months. When she night trained we did still lift her at night to the toilet until a few months ago, but I was up with dd2 anyway. Dd2 has just moved to one long nap from a morning and afternoon one. I never enforced as she just had to slot in around taking dd1 to playgroups etc..., she found her own pattern although it did change quite a bit between 6 and 9 months.

HearMyRoar, definitely push for food testing, might be quite a waiting list though. Still waiting for tests for dd1 after she got hives all over her from eating something over 6 months ago! If you want to test it out for yourself do what you have already done and remove from diet, observe then re-introduce and observe. We worked out dd1 was lactose intolerant doing that, but then both dh and I are too, so we drink lactose free milk in our house.

Elphaba, glad to hear your mastitis is clearing up fast and that you survived your first day at work. I remember dd1 used to wake a lot more after I returned to work. I believe not all of them were hunger, some were definitely for contact and comfort. She settled down though, once she was used to the new situation.

Hello moojie,.nice to here a positive story.

Stitch is doing well and went from 12.30am to 4.30am last night, but was then up for an hour because she pooed again (why in the middle of the night?). She took her first steps today, three in a row, twice so I am hoping that soon she will be tired out from practising her new found skill smile

Wishing good nights for everyone

lucylookout Mon 04-Feb-13 22:25:30

Thanks for all the welcomes and answers.

Dog, glad the meeting went well and you have a better night tonight.

Hearmyroar, I know what you mean about cosleeping. It does seem a very natural thing to do and in the rare moments when I'm in my bed and DS is asleep in his cot next door he seems very litre to be asleepm, alone in a different room. BUT I love going to bed to read without worrying about waking him up and I'd like our bed to see a little more action than our sofa has in recent months wink. What I'd really like us for DS to sleep until about 3am and then come into our bed for a feed and solid sleep until, ooh, about 7.30. Got that DS?

And yes, maybe this particularly bad spate has started since weaning...

What symptoms does your dd have that make you think she might have intolerances? DS had reflux, until I gave up dairy. I'm a bit scared to try reintroducing it and am seeing the dr tomorrow hopefully. Have always had the impression he has a very delicate digestive system.

Moojie, thanks for the reassuring words! Hope your nights continue to improve.

Elphaba, first day back at work? Wow. Hope it went ok and that elphaba jnr behaves tonight.

Well done little stitch on your first steps! Now tire yourself out walking so your mum can get some sleep.

Stitch, At what age did your dd change to one longish nap? DS's short naps are driving me potty.

I hope you all have a good night. DS not doing too badly so far. He was knackered so in bed at 6.30, but has just woken at 7 and 8.45 so far.

lucylookout Mon 04-Feb-13 22:27:25

Gah, bleedin'phone and my fat thumbs

HearMyRoar Tue 05-Feb-13 19:26:23

6 months wait! shock

Lucy we've already cut out dairy quite a while ago as she was getting awful wind, reflux, and was generally miserable, her skins also got really bad with horrid red marks on her cheeks. As soon as we stopped the dairy there was a massive improvement. We're getting very similar symptoms again since we started giving her porridge for breakfast so I am pretty sure she also has an issue with oats (and I always thought porridge was the most innocent of foods). Last night was the 4th oat free and she was much improved. No more waking up screaming and farting for 2 hours in the night, she even slept an extra 40mins in the morning and was all smiles when she woke up which was nice.

I'm going to do as suggested and give it a couple more weeks and then brave a bowl of porridge to see how she goes. It would be good to get these confirmed though so hoping the gp will refer.

DogandBeth Tue 05-Feb-13 23:32:48

Hello all thanks for your good wishes. I've recently gone back to work and this could also explain dd's lack of sleep as she's got quite clingy whichg is unlike her. Sure a lot of the bf ing must be for comfort I find it hard to believe she'd be hungry for hours on end at night.
Anyway here's hoping for a peaceful night for us all (don't fancy my chances but bad hope!)

DogandBeth Tue 05-Feb-13 23:34:06

Can hope, not bad hope! Silly tiny touch screen phone and fat fingers!

PoppyAmex Wed 06-Feb-13 08:59:49

Hi everyone

I've been staying away from this thread because DD has been sleeping much better in the past 2 weeks and I'm sure no one wants to hear about that grin

Well... that didn't last. Back to 6 or more night wakings with a lovely new added bonus: night terrors shock

She had three episodes (two during naps and one at night) and I can safely say it was horrifying. Apparently it's not like a nightmare as in they don't remember anything and can't actually "see" any images or scary things, so they're not in actual distress but it sucks for parents. You can't wake them up, so you just lie there watching rivers of tears, thrashing and whimpering. sad

On a more positive note, she's has fallen asleep by herself for the last 3 weeks! We put her in her cot, she gets up again, babbles and sings to herself for a while and then happily lies down and goes to sleep shock

To be fair I had never tried to just put her in the cot and walk away, so maybe she was really eager to get rid of us and go to sleep alone all this time grin

Anyway, back to waking up a million times a night. <sigh>

Good to see new people; hi lucy and dog!

Elphaba how are you feeling now? I can't believe you had to deal with work and mastitis. Just doesn't seem fair! How did your first day back go?

Yay for Mini-Stitch and her first three steps! Did she just let go and went for it? I think DD will die of happiness when she manages that -at the moment she's still very experimental about letting one support hand go at a time. grin

I just started planning her first birthday party and her christening - it's weird, feels like these 11 months were the longest of my life but at the same time time flew really fast, anyone feel the same?

HearMyRoar Wed 06-Feb-13 19:03:40

dog I found dd was very clingy and fed a lot at night when I went back to work as well. Not helped by her refusal to take a bottle. It lasted about 2-3 weeks and then she got used to the routine and settled down a bit.

Welcome back poppy sorry to hear its going a bit wrong for you. NIght terrors sound awful! sad

Dd did one nap again today which is the first time in a while. We did have to have a sit down and a cuddle in as dark room for as bit this morning but apart from that she's been on pretty good form today.

ballroompink Wed 06-Feb-13 19:12:01

In my absence things have been continuing much the same. We now have the top front teeth through although DS is still really struggling with them. Waking is still every couple of hours and we've got to the stage where we're definitely only getting a couple of hours out of him when he first goes to bed sad Still doesn't seem to want to self settle any more - last night we had an hour of screaming because we tried to get him to go back to sleep when he woke at 8.30pm. Hate this feeling of being on edge ALL BLOODY EVENING.

ElphabaTheGreen Wed 06-Feb-13 19:12:35

Hi poppy! Sorry to see you back (in the nicest, most empathetic way, of course).

Boob is a little itchy/tingly but much better. Mainly, I am S.H.A.T.T.E.R.E.D but I think that's par for the return-from-mat-leave course, whether you have a sleeper or no.

DS slept like a dream on Tuesday night - three wake ups only and the WHOLE NIGHT in his cot. First time I've woken up next to DH in months. He decided to make up for it last night though - ten squillion wake ups, co-sleeping from 11pm, then up for the day at 4:30am. Felt like complete death all day, and nearly failed a component of training at work induction blush. Normally when he's done that I could get him back to sleep for an hour or so between 7 and 8 but since I now have to be out of the house at 7 every morning, I couldn't do it. DH said he was absolutely screaming by the time he got to nursery sad I wish I could afford to work part time or, better yet, not at all, at least until he's bigger...sad

ballroompink Wed 06-Feb-13 19:14:05

Also I think the teething is putting him off his food as all this week he's only been enthusiastic about eating things that don't involve chewing. He's been so good with food recently so I'm finding that really frustrating. Two weeks until I go back to work!

lucylookout Wed 06-Feb-13 19:45:18

Hearmyroar, is that 6 months before you get an appt for allergy testing? That seems a very long time. Is that on the NHS? Interesting what you say about oats. I too thought they were pretty innocent! DS seems OK with them so far but I haven't dared reintroduce dairy into my or his diet yet.

Dog, at her age it does sound more like comfort feeding than actual hunger. babies are very adaptable little things so I'm sure she'll get used to it soon (and start seeping through the night of course!!)

Poppy, DS1 who is 5 has night terrors too. An illness with a high temp started them off and now he gets them whenever he's ill or coming down with something, or if he's too tired, over excited or if his room is too hot. If you think your DD might be teething (and gets accompanying temperature) it might be worthwhile giving her a preemptive dose of calpol. Also just make sure that her bedroom is not too hot. You're right though, they're truly horrible for us, but DS has no recollection of them whatsoever.

Hi Ballroompink, I know that on edge evening feeling. It does sound like teething though so hopefully it'll pop through before you go back to work and then you can all get some rest.

Elphaba, wow, 3 wake ups is bloody brilliant! Even if the next night was bad, the fact that he's done it once means that he can and will do it again and get better and better.

ballroompink Wed 06-Feb-13 20:44:12

I hope so Lucy! He's been teething on and off since September so I think we're due a break!

Just (fingers crossed) cuddled him back to sleep following his first wake-up of the night.

HearMyRoar Wed 06-Feb-13 20:47:36

Lucy the 6 months was a reference to stitch saying she is still waiting after 6 months. I'm hoping it will be a bit better where I am but I'll see what the gp says next week. To be honest everyday since we have stopped the oats has had a small but noticeable improvement. Last night she slept from 6:30 to 9pm!

Glad you're feeling better elph and that you made it through the training. Dd always likes to follow up a good night with a shocker, just to keep us on our toes grin

Me and dp are going out for dinner tomorrow night. Very excited! Partly for our 6year anniversary of getting together (we're not married so celebrate our first date instead), partly so the friend who volunteered to babysit for our evening in London can have a test run. I'm hoping dd will not wake up and scream the place down in case our poor friend changes her mind.

PoppyAmex Thu 07-Feb-13 20:59:23

Elph I'm in awe of you right now, I struggle to function during the day right now and I can't imagine having to think at work.

Will it change the dynamics around your house? I'm asking because most women tend to do the night "shift" during ML but once you're back at work I would imagine you have to share the load a bit more (breastfeeding allowing)?

Hear I always read your posts eagerly because our DDs are pretty much the same age and I long to read some good news to give me some hope!

Lucy I seriously hope the night terrors aren't a permanent fixture, but I'll be taking as many precautions as I can.

So, the little toad is showing signs of wanting to drop a nap (ARGH) and her molars are still bugging her - in fact, DH just went in 30ms ago to rub some bonjela on her and she bit him so hard it drew blood! I thought it was hysterical and took a picture; surprisingly DH didn't.

You have to see the magnitude of the violence - will upload it to my profile grin

Last night was so shit it's not even worth talking about.

Has anyone read any new methods/tactics? <clutching at straws>

BobbysBeardOfWonder Thu 07-Feb-13 22:54:21

Hi I'm new to this thread, haven't had chance to read it all yet.
Can I ask if anyone else has anger issues arising from sleep deprivation? I'm suffering horrendously at the mo, each day I feel like I could snap sad

ElphabaTheGreen Fri 08-Feb-13 03:05:10

Poppy Steady on, only been back a week! I may yet collapse with exhaustion.

There's no sharing the night wakings sadly. DH, bless him, is desperate to help me out, but DS won't have it - goes from whimpering to screaming in 30 seconds if it's not me. Hence, co-sleeping tends to be the order of the day.

Welcome Bobby. How old is your DC? How long have you been dealing with the sleep deprivation?

ElphabaTheGreen Fri 08-Feb-13 03:05:46

Happy 600th post, BTW grin

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