Doing controlled crying now - DD seems to have more stamina than me...

[babybouncer]

DD is now 7 months old and given that she has only been sleeping for about 45-90 mins at a time during the night for the past week or so (she's never been a great sleeper - always woken two or three times a night) and feeding her back to sleep has been taking longer and longer, we've decided to try controlled crying. We started at 7 and fully expected it to take and hour, but its now 8:20 and she isn't giving up. She had a big dinner, a couple of ounces of formula and a full breastfeed. The room is not too hot or too cold. Does it just take this long? It's so much hard than I thought it would be...

[SlatternlyBrideOfDracula]

Please persevere, esp now you have started it.

I did it with Dd. she was never a brilliant sleeper and she was getting progressivley worse. We did it just before her first birthday, and it was the best thing we ever did.

That night was bad. After she went to sleep we were on edge all night [hgrin]. After that she has slept through (with the odd murmer) ever since.

Pour yourself a glass of [hwine], it will help you to relax

[SlatternlyBrideOfDracula]

No Halloween wine?? Disgusting [hsmile]

I hope she falls asleep soon

[Mintyy]

How often are you going in to her?

[AnnaLiza]

I'm doing it too. Perhaps we can support each other?
DS is almost 9 months and typically doesn't sleep for more than 45 min without waking up and demanding the boob to go back to sleep. We co-slept until two nights ago. I wasn't sure whether to start last night or leave it until the Christmas holidays but I'm getting ill due to sleep deprivation (literally) and DS looks so tired too that I started it yesterday night.
So we started at 7. He got a bf and a long cuddle then I put him in his cot. He played for 15 minutes then started crying. I left him 2 minutes, went in patted him on the back and he carried on crying but I left. Then went in again after 5 minutes, then 10, then 15. All the time he carried on crying while I was in with him but I left him anyway. Then I left him a bit longer because I thought he was calming down and in fact he did stop crying after another 20 minutes. All in all he cried for just over an hour. BUT...he did wake up after half an hour and started again for about 10-20 minutes and so on throughout the night. I kept going him and comforting him and at a certain point he did calm down and stop crying while I was patting his back.
GOSH THAT WAS HARD! You must be very determined to see it through is all I can say! At a certain point during the night I really missed him and so wanted to cuddle him. I've realised that I need to get used to sleeping without him too.
I am dreading the night ahead. He's cried a bit less when we put him down tonight but I expect he'll wake up soon and start again.
Thing is, if we give up now we will have upset them for nothing. So keep going, keep posting!

[babybouncer]

AL - it's like everything with babies, so much harder but hopefully worth it!
We've been going in and patting and sh-ing after 2, 4, 8 and then every 10 mins. After 90 mins I sent DH in to pick her up because she just seemed so upset. He did and she calmed down on him and went to sleep on him, he put her in her cot and she stayed asleep. But even that feels like a victory as she has only got to sleep by feeding before. After 45mins she started crying but when I went in and patted her she seemed reassured and went back to sleep.
I'm sure she'll go again soon (and may then actually need feeding), but this is already more evening than I've had in 10 days.

[Dylanlovesbaez]

I'm so glad I've seen this. Dd extremely strong willed too. She just keeps winning. It's so hard as we live in flag and don't want to upset the neighbours but I cannot handle it anymore. She's constantly using me as a dummy too. Lets support each other! I've got no success story at the moment because I gave up, didn't even try at the 4am wake up!

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

She might be teething. That makes children want to be with their parents, it hurts, they don't understand why and they get clingy.

It's not recommended for below 12 months anyway - I really think it might be an idea to wait.

Children usually cry/can't sleep for a reason, I prefer to be there with mine if they can't sleep or are upset - there's loads of time for them to get into good sleeping patterns later on

and re the strong willed/winning comments - please don't set it up as a confrontation between you and your child. You should be on the same side! They haven't the awareness to manipulate you at this age. They just have needs.

[AnnaLiza]

Babybouncer what you is describe is indeed success. Like your DD, my DS would not have fallen asleep with my DH, especially at night. Giving in would have been if you had picked her up, fed her and took her in bed with you. I think you did exactly the right thing to have him pick her after that long. I think it's sensible to adapt the training to your circumstances or to how your baby reacts. Keep going!
As for us, night two was sooooo much better. He cried for about 40 minutes before falling asleep as supposed to one hour the night before (we did go in to check regularly). Then he woke up a couple of times only, once before we went to bed (around 10 o'clock) and cried for 10 minutes and another time around 2 am and cried for half an hour. We went in both times. Basically he slept through 10 to 2 and 2.30 to 7 am this morning!! That's incredible and feels like a small miracle to me. I got DH to be "on call" so I finally got a decent night sleep.

How did your night go after you posted?

[seeker]

Please don't do cc before 12 months. Even the guy who invented it said it was for. 12 months and up.

And be careful when you use words like strong willed - it makes it sound as if you're trying to "real her will" which obviously you aren't-but it's not a good mind set. She's not old enough to be wilful or stubborn - she just wants you.

[AnnaLiza]

Eds thank you for your input. However, I find it a bit upsetting that instead of supporting us with what is an INCREDIBLY difficult process, you feel the need to butt in an discourage us.
None of us want our babies to cry! If we've got to this point is because we are at the end of our tether after months (9 for me) of sleepless nights. Furthermore I do not believe that my DS actually needs me during the night. He's clearly not hungry as he would just suck my nipples for 2 minutes and then fall asleep or else chomp on it all night without even getting a let down of milk.
Yes maybe I've decided not to meet his need to treat me like a human dummy. However I've decided that it's in his best interest to sleep rather than to be boob obsessed all night especially as he would recently sit up in (our) bed, headbutt us and whinge all night. And he looked shattered in the morning.
So please go and post your support on other threads.

[AnnaLiza]

And seeker too

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

I'm sorry to have upset you. I find the idea of controlled crying with very young babies upsetting too. That's why I said something, not because I think you're a bad parent, or because I don't understand how hard it is. I have been there. But because I think there are massive expectations of babies thatthey 'should' be sleeping through at an early age (thanks to the books that promise us they will, if we only do the 'plan' correctly) and I hate to see parentsfeeling like they are failing if their children don't do this.

Needing milk and needing reassurance that you are there - two different needs and both can be met. Whatever you choose to do, please don't feel bad if your child doesn't sleep through yet, it's completely normal. That's all I'll say. Best wishes x

[Dylanlovesbaez]

Obviously we would rather comfort our crying babies too but when our nipples are being chomped red raw and we've done everything in our power to make sure our babies are safe, correct temp, not ill or hurting yet they still wake every hour, what can we do? You mention about strong willed, my dd is strong willed in every way. She certainly knows her likes and dislikes and will let us know. I've no explanation as to why she's waking so frequently, she also rarely naps. I know sleep would do her a favour so this is why dp and I are currently discussing cc technique. It feels crap and I cannot bear the guilt but I know there is nothing wrong with dd apart from fact she's super tired and needs to sleep. She has her eyes closed most of the time when she 'wakes' in the night and is just desperate to get back to sleep. Us sssshing and patting and cuddling etc seems to make her worse. We spoke to our dr who we respect massively and he told us she is just hyper alert and a minx!
If you have any helpful advice that will help us actually get some sleep then by all means offer it but please don't make us feel guiltier than we all ready do. It's not a decision we've taken lightly.

[seeker]

I agree with what Eds said. We live in a culture that expects babies to sleep alone all night incredibly young, and mothers often (I am not saying that anyone on is thread necessarily feels this way) feel that they are somehow "getting it wrong" if their baby doesn't, and feel obliged to do something to fix it. And that something is often cc- people seem to think it's the only way. It often doesn't work and it is incredibly stressful for the parents. And when it does work, it is often knocked out of kilter at the next tooth, or cold or night away from home. Which makes parents feel even worse. And it fixes something that would probably have fixed itself in a week or so anyway.

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

I'm not trying to make you feel worse. I can see that you already feel like crap about it.

I'm trying to say sometimes, it's best to go with your own feelings and not do something that makes you feel like crap.

if you want advice from me, well all I can offer is probably useless but it's what I did...I had them in the bed with me, let them feed or just nizzle when they seemed to want to, and if they seemed to be teething then I gave them something for that or perhaps got up and walked around jiggling them for a while.

Yes it is bloody hard sometimes. I just think you are being very hard on yourself, to put yourself through it. But if CC isn't really working anyway, well I don't understand the point of trying so hard to make it work. I am so sorry for you and I don't want to make things harder.

Babies are really difficult. I hope that you find a way to get through this, it will pass, likely whatever you do but CC is not making you any less miserable and that makes me want to say, you don't have to do this.

[MrsCantSayAnything]

I also want to ask you why you want to do this with such a small child when it's not recommended. It's not on. I'm not going to tiptoe around you when you're being unreasonable re a small baby. You shouldn't do it.

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

Nuzzle, not nizzle. Whatever nizzling is..

Also yes, you're concerned that she is getting overtired. But it won't harm her to be tired. She'll probably sleep during the day instead - unless something tangible is stopping her, like pain or discomfort etc. in which case I am certain you will do all you can to find out what it is and help her through it.

No judging here. Just don't pressure yourselves to enforce sleep at the 'right' time whatever the cost. and however crappy it makes you feel.

[AnnaLiza]

I didn't read any books from the experts. Sleeping through at nine months is not too early. I don't feel crap about my decision, thank you very much, but I hate being patronised.
Now please respect our decision an stop posting on our SUPPORT thread!

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

Anna, I was speaking to Dylan, who said she felt crap.

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

And I disagree about putting a time limit on when is too early. Not all babies are programmed to sleep through at the same point, it's silly to suggest otherwise.

I'm not trying to patronise.

[seeker]

So you haven't read anything about controlled crying and how it isn't recommended for babies under 12 months?

[MrsCantSayAnything]

You are being unrealistic. Complaining that you have had no proper sleep for 9 months is one thing....but trying to enforce sleep on an infant is not right...most parents don't get proper sleep for about three years!

A baby of 9 months can't express it's needs and they cry for a reason. Not to wind you up.

[EdsRedeemingQualities]

'BUT...he did wake up after half an hour and started again for about 10-20 minutes and so on throughout the night. I kept going him and comforting him and at a certain point he did calm down and stop crying while I was patting his back.
GOSH THAT WAS HARD! You must be very determined to see it through is all I can say! At a certain point during the night I really missed him and so wanted to cuddle him. I've realised that I need to get used to sleeping without him too '

Sounds like you are not enjoying it much. It also sounds far harder work than what I did, maybe I am lazy, I don't know, but 'giving in' and just putting them next to you can be a really good solution to this issue.

Look I'll leave you to it, but Dylan asked me to suggest helpful things and I've done my best. I just hope that you find a solution, for everyone who is struggling.

[MrsCantSayAnything]

Article about it here