Really... This non sleeping & constant crying is making me so fed up.

[sleepdodger]

I am trying to get my 10 week old ds into some sort of bloody routine.. its making me so fed up :-(

All my friends babys sleep for bloody hours, literally my 4 best friends with babies all ebf, and not lying about sleep , think theyve had a bad night if they dont get a run of at least 6 hrs. I'm not even expecting that, just something resembling a pattern at least
he doesnt nap during the day. ever.
he will usually sleep if we go out in the car, but come night time I have to feed him to sleep, which usually is 11.30-12pm
I've tried bathing / massage / feed by 930/10 on several occassions to no avail, but tonight thought I'd give it another go
Its now 2256 and hes been crying lying on our bed since 2200
I feel so so mean leaving him but feel as though I have to 'break' the cycle of only going to sleep at midnight!!
The HV postnatal group session on sleep said it was important they could self soothe but he has no inclination, and screams immediately on waking
when he finally does sleep at 12 it had been till 4 and then 430-7, but now we've regressed back to 12-3 if I'm lucky and then maybe 4-7
I'm knackered constantly, which makes me fed up and unable to deal with the most basic of setbacks (teary over forgetting stuff etc) and I'm having NO time with my DH... its friday night and Ive been sat upstairs on my ow with a screaming baby. (DH offered to be with me, but after a v v stressful week at work I told him to go and relax with the golf)
I am ebf so cant hand him over, or top him up with a big feed to encourage a longer sleep
I dont know what else to try, or how much longer I can leave him crying without caving, I'm now at 1 hr and feel horribly neglectful

WWYD?? all suggestions v welcomed xx

[DuelingFanjo]

I bet they ARE lying about the sleep.

Maybe 10 weeks is a little early for a routine? I was pinned to the bed or sofa for about 16 weeks or maybe more. My son is now 6 months and doesn't self soothe. If he cries I figure he must need me so I go to him. I know it's tough but if carrying him and soothing him makes it less stressful could you carry on with that for a while and just repeat 'this too will end' because in my experience it will.

I remember starting a thread and being advised to start a routine of bath, bed etc. so we did and now he is asleep by 7 and although he does wake up a few times in the night I have my evenings back.

I absolutely sympathise, it does get better. Right now I recon you need to pick him up and soothe him. Also let your DH help, I was really bad at that but it does make a difference if you let them.


Ignore the HV, ignore what other people are saying, it's not important that he self soothe.

[Iggly]

10 weeks is too early for a routine. With a non sleeping baby myself, I read loads and loads. One book, by Weissbluth was great as it explained that before 4 months, babies don't really respond to routine etc. So don't bother. Just follow sleepy and hunger cues instead. Sounds simple, it wasn't always but once I started doing this it became easier as DS was happier.

I used a sling for getting him to sleep in the day mostly. It's summer so easier to go for a walk. (even in the rain!). Sometimes I'd rock in the dark and let him sleep on me. Sleep is more important than how he gets it.

Self settling doesn't come naturally to some babies until around 4-5 months so ignore the HV.

DS had evenings like yours - it was soul destroying. In the end, an earlier bedtime of around 6 worked - so feeing by 6.15 and fall asleep by 7. Any later and it just didn't happen. Then he became an overtired crying mess and wouldn't settle till 10ish if we were lucky. I always fed for bed in the dark or with a very dim night light.

There's nothing wrong with feeding to sleep. Or rocking. Spmebabies NEED those cuddles. They'll grow out of it in time.

[MrsHoolie]

I agree with the others,it is a little early for a routine,although you could start with an evening/bedtime routine.
The key is to not 'feed to sleep' every single time.
Would you consider expressing some milk so your hubby could give your DS a bottle,then you could have a break and maybe an early night.
I swaddled both my two which helped a bit.
I don't think your friends are lying,loads of babies sleep really well from early on,sadly not mine!

[TheCrackFox]

"when he finally does sleep at 12 it had been till 4 and then 430-7, but now we've regressed back to 12-3 if I'm lucky and then maybe 4-7"

I don't want to depress you but that actually is pretty normal for a 10 week old.

Feeding to sleep or rocking (or whatever) is fine in a small baby. You are not making a rod for your own back.

[AlsoAvailableSober]

They may well not be lying, what a rubbish comment duelling . My ebf dd1 slept 7-7 at 8 weeks. Dd2 at 19 m

[AlsoAvailableSober]

Bloody phone

19 months despite the same 'routine'. I am really sorry to hear of your disturbed nights op, they are a killer, but I agree that your friends need not be lying.

[PukeyRag]

(Sorry if this has been said, skipped all posts)

"he doesnt nap during the day. ever." - I think this is your main problem.
Babies need day time naps in order to be well rested and able to sleep longer at night. Sleep promotes sleep with babies, and if he isn't getting any sleep (in Elizabeth Pantleys words) he will be chronically overtired, and therefore 'wired' and frantic and unable to sleep.

I have made this mistake myself. Example - One day my DD (14 weeks) had about an hour and a half of sleep, and slept horrendously that night. (In fact she is not a good napper in general which results in waking a lot at night)
And one day I had her in the sling a lot of the day, she slept for about five hours that day, and that night, seven hours on the trot, then another three after a feed.

It works, and i'd suggest really working on the day time naps, notice when your baby is tired and start trying to get him to sleep as soon as you see these signs, otherwise you will miss the opportunity and he will get overtired. Get a sling, they are a godsend, it may help him fall asleep. Get some white noise or soothing music, black out blinds, anything that you think may help him nap in the day :)

For a 10 week old it's pretty normal to be waking up every three hours though, he's still going to be waking up hungry, so it's to be expected.

All the best.

[bigkidsmademe]

I don't think it's too early for a routine. It's too early to expect a routine to work, but it's a good habit I think and reinforces the difference between day an night sleep. I agree with increasing naps by any methods possible - my DS had all his naps in the sling till 20 weeks - and trying not to feed to sleep. 10 weeks is too early to be strict about things but you can try to gently establish good techniques!

[DuelingFanjo]

"They may well not be lying, what a rubbish comment duelling"

sorry

it comes from knowing for sure that some of my friend were lying. After earing stuff like 'my baby slept trough last nigt, oh except for when I had to get up and put his dummy back in at 3 am'

[motherinferior]

If it's all of them, they are so lying. And/or their idea of 'sleeping through' means 'sleeping for stretches in between feeds'.

Get through for another month, sweetie, while making bed-time routines a priority (and yes this does feel peculiarly pointless when you know it isn't actually leading to sleep) and then start working more on a routine. This too will pass. At about four months I suddenly realised DD1 didn't need feeding every time she stirred, started holding off a bit...and she went from waking several times a night to sleeping through.

[RitaMorgan]

You can't leave a 10 week old to cry for an hour - that's crazy and won't achieve anything.

I agree he sounds chronically overtired - sleep breeds sleep at this age and he needs something like 14 hours sleep a day minimum. Get him napping however you can, feeding, rocking, pram, car or whatever.

10 weeks is very early to start worrying about self-settling too imo. My ds couldn't self-settle til about 7 months.

[RitaMorgan]

And try not to let him have more than 2 hours awake at a time in the day - first sign of tiredness start feeding/rocking to sleep. Often babies can only stay awake for an hour or so first thing in the morning before they need their first nap.

[TheCrackFox]

They might not be lying.

DS1 woke hourly for the first year and didn't sleep through the night until he was 4yrs old. (nearly broke me as a person)

DS2 was sleeping through pretty much from day one. I didn't do anything different. They were very different babies.

[greeneone12]

Feeding to sleep was my saviour! In the early weeks I would lay down with DD next to me and we would both drift off. I was militant about not wanting her to get into a feed to sleep habit after advice from my friends...and now she is 8MO I quite like that I can feed her to sleep if/when she needs to. Today though she wasn't having any of it! Just saying they change so quickly so don't be afraid to do what's easy! Spoke to a lovely HV, in tears, asking if my routine etc is creating problems with sleep. She said just do what makes life easy for you...I started doing that and we are both happier now!

[beachavendrea]

just to agree with what everyone else has said. but also try putting him down at 6:30-7:00 each night, might help. I suggested this to my friend who has a 12 week old a couple of weeks ago and now he goes down like a dream at 7:00. took him a few weeks though.

Also if she can do two hours at this time then at least you get some time for dinner.

and let your dh help, i didn't let my dh do enough, I'm not making that mistake for my second. Remember you are doing a very stressful job as well and you do it 24 hours a day!

[Wiggins]

Your littley sounds chronically overtired. It's not your fault though! Some babies are just prone to it. My ds (who is now 7.5 months old) only slept around 9 hours in every 24 for the first 2-3 months of his life, and that was mostly in half- to 1-hour increments, at completely random times. The other 15 hours was non-stop, terrible crying. It was... words cannot express...
The thing that made a huge difference was putting him on a 3-hourly routine, which i did when he was about 2 months old (could have done earlier though). So I fed him at midnight, 3am, 6am, 9am, noon, 3pm, 6pm, 9pm, rinse & repeat. It really helped, and it was amazing how quickly he got used to it. He would relax after the feed, and when he fell asleep he would always wake himself up at 5 mins pre-feed time :)
The other thing that helped with naps was to put him to bed around 1.5 hours after his last nap. Even if he showed no clear signs of tiredness. This type of baby often doesn't show the signs until it is too late.
At 3.5-4ish months (can't quite remember exactly, all fuzzy now) I adjusted it to a 4-hourly routine. Ds took to it straight away, no problemo. He started sleeping like a champion, with a 7pm bedtime (well he would often protest for half an hour to an hour but then settle down by himself).
Then when he was about 5 months he suddenly wanted to go back to 3-hourly which i eventually realised was actually him needing to start on some solids.
He's not perfect, I'm still getting quite a lot of 5-6am wakings, but the difference to what it used to be like is immeasurable. I am a human again not a zombie! And he is a way happier little boy.
Don't worry, it's hellish at the stage you're at but things will get much better soon :)

[CocoPopsAddict]

"he doesnt nap during the day. ever." - I think this is your main problem.
Babies need day time naps in order to be well rested and able to sleep longer at night. Sleep promotes sleep with babies, and if he isn't getting any sleep (in Elizabeth Pantleys words) he will be chronically overtired, and therefore 'wired' and frantic and unable to sleep.

PukeyRag - sorry, but this isn't true for my DS. Sleeps through the night but hardly ever naps in the day. He is almost seven months now, and has been pretty much the same since six weeks. He is good-natured and not 'wired'.

OP - at ten weeks you could try feeding in semi-darkness with quiet then putting in cot, repeat when he cries. And don't take him in the bedroom unless it's bedtime.

[diyqueen]

If it's any consolation I have a 13-week-old whose sleep pattern is very similar to your little one's. I was despairing at the late bedtimes, but then one night magically she did go to sleep at 7... then woke up at 10, then at 1am and wouldn't go to sleep again for hours (til, like, 6am...!). She did go through a phase of sleeping up to 6 hours in a stretch, but lately it's been back to the 3-hourly waking again, and I'm with you, it all just gets exhausting. With my dd I know she will eventually stop crying and fall asleep if I walk around with her for about 20 mins - hard on the arms as she's getting heavier now but at least I know it works. Or sometimes laying her on my lap and gently rubbing her tummy works. She used to feed to sleep all the time but seems to largely have stopped that now and still be awake after a feed most of the time. If she's crying but very much awake, sometimes putting her on a big soft towel and letting her kick about nappy-free while talking to her seems to distract her. Every baby's different and maybe none of these tactics will work for you, but sharing just in case and sympathising!

[diyqueen]

Oh and nearly forgot, read something in a book that transformed the way I dealt with crying - it suggested making yourself as calm as possible while comforting a screaming baby as they need to feel you're calm and in control to feel safe. Sounds obvious but I realised that I was just getting increasingly tense as the screaming wore on and had stopped trying to connect with my poor baby - when I slowed my breathing, talked gently and made myself stay artificially calm it really really did help.

[fififrog]

I second the recommendation for the Weissbluth book - I just got it. It's the only book I've read which says it's fine to put your baby down deeply asleep and that feeding to sleep is perfectly ok. I was getting very stressed about the self-setting business til then, DD is just clearly not ready though making slow progress at 13 weeks.

My advice would be to watch for signs she's tired earlier and try for bedtime then if you can spot a good time. Mine used to cry all evening but looked exhausted about 7pm even though we couldn't get her to sleep til 9 at 8 weeks or so, but with a bit of persistence and extra few weeks to her name she does indeed now go to sleep at 7 +/- half an hour.

Best of luck!

[WishIWasRimaHorton]

totally not the done thing but ...

have you tried sleeping him on his tummy?

my DS was the same -could get NO sleep out of him at all. until a friend asked me how he did fall asleep - and i said 'only ever on his front on my chest'. and she suggested putting him down on his tummy. he slept for 6 hours straight. i think he was knackered poor chap. he slept on his tummy until he was 18 months old. never moved onto his back at all.

now, i know this is not the done thing. but you sound desperate. could you try it? during the day? supervised? ...

[GretnaGirl]

In response to the last post my DS 10 weeks has slept on his tummy since I decided to ignore the "rules" after a week. I'd had no sleep at all and realised he was pretty much telling me what he needed and I should listen to him not the HV or books etc... He has a strong neck and can lift his head so I put him onto his tummy and it was like a miracle!! A good night for us now is 8 pm feed, straight into his cot ( lucky to have large bedroom too) and he wakes about 2 am for a feed. Then it's a bit hit and miss as his sleep isn't so sound but he doesn't want milk again til about 6am. My first DS was in his own room with no night feed at this point ( but not sleeping through without some settling during the night) but all babies are different. Go with what works for you as a family and what your baby is telling you works for them! Good luck.

[Graciescotland]

Try and get some daytime naps in, I found my DS would get overtired and unable to sleep if he didn't nap properly.

Try putting him in a sling or go for a long walk anything to get him to sleep. Once he's been awake for two hours get him to have a nap for at least 45mins (even if that means walking with him for an hour). It's easier to put them down in their bed once you get the sleep pattern settled IFKWIM.

[Wiggins]

That's interesting about the tummy sleeping. My boy always hated sleeping on his back so i used to prop him on his side. He didn't learn to roll until he was 4.5 months old and the day he did, he rolled onto his tummy to sleep and has never slept any other way since. And like the above couple of posters say, he sleeps much more soundly that way.
(Like GretnaGirl's ds he has a strong neck and can easily lift his head and maneuver himself around. I think for a weaker or unwell baby then it's not such a good idea).

[lonesomeBiscuit]

Lots of good advice above.

Re the crying with overtiredness, one other thing (which I read on here some time back and really works for me) is that sometimes the best way to deal with a screaming overtired baby is not to jiggle/shush/pat/walk round with them, which simply stimulates them more, but just to hold them really close and tight to your body and let them cry while looking into their eyes and repeating something simple like "it's OK" over and over again in a quiet voice. Sometimes they get to the point where they need to let go of the accumulated tension and letting them cry is actually the best way, but they need to know (from being held) that you are there for them and that they are safe, in order to relax.

It all depends on your baby, but with my DS there is a certain point beyond which he won't be soothed to sleep by any of my normal methods and I know that I just need to hold him close, look into his eyes, and let him cry. It is heartbreaking seeing him cry his heart out but after a couple of minutes the crying will begin to diminish in volume and pitch as he begins to relax into my arms whilst crying. The crying goes through a few cycles of the starting up again with full force and then dying down again, as he gradually calms, then he stops crying and looks into my eyes quite calmly before falling asleep.

The original advice which I read on here was expressed much better!