Sorry! Another Controlled Crying Thread..Lose the Dummy??

[LittlebearH]

I have searched the numerous threads but cannot find the answers to the questions I have. Sorry this is a long post!

I am planning on starting CC this weekend. Please do not flame me for this as it is not a decision DP and I have made lightly.
To give you the background, my DD is almost 9 months old and has never slept through the night. Ever.

She has a bed time routine and goes to bed at 7pm. However she wakes every 2/3 hours after 11.30pm. I am exhausted. I am on anti deps due to the anxiety and sleep deprivation.

We live in a flat and DP does try to settle her but she tends to cry more with him than with me. Therefore if he is on ?duty? I am still awoken and end up co sleeping when she gets worked up.

DP drives for a living and I am due to go back to work in Jan and I have a 5.30am alarm call.

I have ruled out hunger as she has 3 bottles and 3 meals a day. Basically she cries if either of us leaves the room before she is asleep.
We have tried letting her cry and she will do so for 2 hours and I gave in. So she ?won?.

I would like advice please from those who have done CC and succeeded.

She has a dummy but this will get thrown out the cot when she starts to cry and I have tried a dummy clip but this just digs in and annoys her.

I don?t want to go in and have to replace the dummy each time I return to the room to reassure her as then this will become a new ?issue?.

So do we lose the dummy too??

What are the best times to go in?
We are thinking 5 min, 10 min, 15 min, 20 min, and then every 20 mins thereafter.

What are any don?ts?

Any other advice would be welcome as we are pretty nervous about doing this as she is a strong willed little thing and praying it takes days rather than weeks!

[LittlebearH]

Also I forgot to add-

what do you do with day time naps?

Her lunchtime one she wakes halfway through and needs re-settling once or twice as well. :(

Or will this improve when her night time sleep is better??

[mistressploppy]

I can only speak for myself and DS but we did it at nine months too. BUT he is very easy-going and a good sleeper

We went in at 2min, 4min, 8min etc. Only took 3 days doing it at bedtime. Naps sorted themselves out at the same time. Once he'd figured out that being in cot meant 'might at well go to sleep' he was sorted.

Good luck. Reassure yourself that you ARE checking them, she ISN'T alone, it IS for the greater good, eventually.

The only 'don't' I'd say is to make sure you don't stay too long when you go in to check, don't get embroiled in cuddles etc. Just stroke head, soothing words, and leg it.

[mistressploppy]

Oh, and yes, ditch the dummy, I would

[LittlebearH]

Thanks for the advice.

Still not sure about the dummy....whether giving her a comforter instead will help? She can lob that just as easily.

[samoa]

Hi we are also doing CC with our 9mth dd. It is working, and last night she finally slept from 8pm to 7am this morning. Whilst she is crying we have been following the below minutes:

1st day: 1min wait (these are the periods you have to wait before going into the bedroom), 3min wait, 5 min wait, and every 5 minutes after that until she stops crying.

2nd day: 3 min wait, 5min wait, 7 min wait, and every 7 minutes after that until she stops crying.

3rd day: 5min wait, 7min wait, 9 min wait, and every 9mins after that until she stops crying.

4th day: 7min wait, 9 min wait, 11min wait, and every 11mins after she stops crying.

you are supposed to build it up to 17 mins waiting on the 7th day.

The book (Italian) we are using suggests that you do the same for the naps during the day. THe book says that if the baby uses a dummy don't take it away from them. just put several of them in the bed with her. If when you in the room she throws it out of the cot you just pick it up once, place it in the cot, tell them you love them and walk away. if she throws it again before you leave the room you do not pick it up again, because then it will become just a game.

The book we are using has also suggested that on the day that you start the CC the parents should choose a little teddy bear or some sort of comforter that she will use from that day onwards. This will help because when she wakes up she will see that she still has the teddy with her and everything is alright. Don't get a new soft toy, just choose one that she already has and tell her that from now she will be going to bed with teddy etc.

It is tough. Before you start this you and your partner should agree on how you are going to go about this and both be convinced that this is the right decision. Once you have started you have to stay strong. It is horrible to see them crying their eyes out but your baby will not hate you. The next morning my dd woke up and gave me a huge big smile.

Good luck!

[LittlebearH]

Thanks Samoa.

How many times a night did you have to do this. I ask out of interest because my DD wakes every 2/3 hours. So I just keep on doing it?

I am gearing myself up to not even bother going to bed on night 1!!!

[samoa]

Well the first night she only cried for 30mins. She did not wake up until 6am. The second night she cried for 15mins and last night only for 5mins. It has been the daytime naps that have been the hardest. But she now sleeps for an hour and a half in the morning and an hour in the afternoon. Before she only would sleep for 15 mins during her naps and I was slowly losing my sanity.

Also my husband on the first night needing comforting because he was just falling apart seeing dd cry. So i had to pull him aside and take control of the situation. So now it is only me that goes in her bedroom until she stops crying.

We were very careful on the first night to create a very calm atmosphere. We decorated her cot together and then introduced her to her bedtime friend, Mona the cow. Then she had a bath, dinner, a little bit of playing around, bf, reading bedtime story and then bed. When we put her to bed awake she looked at us as if we were both crazy. We then told her that we were teaching her to sleep, that we loved her very much and that we were not abandoning her, that Mona would be there with her. We kissed her goodnight and walked off. then the crying started. The book suggests that on the first night you do not leave them alone crying for more than 5 mins, so that they understand that you are not abandoning them. Then after the first night you can start increasing the minutes.

The book we are using suggests that when you go in their bedroom do not spend more than a few seconds in there.

We have been surprised at how fast it has worked. But it is different for each baby. You just have to keep the end goal in mind.

[LittlebearH]

Just bumping to see if anyone else has any other advice that may help!!

Thanks again Samoa.

[Teapot13]

This topic is full of people with LOs this age who are at the end of their ropes!

You and your partner obviously need sleep and that is a perfectly acceptable reason to do this but from what you have described it sounds like your LO is overtired. That is the best reason to resort to tough love. Our DD is 11.5 months and we sleep trained when she was closer to your LO's age. She sleeps longer and better now.

My main recommendation is to find a plan and stick with it. There isn't a plan that will be perfect but you need to be consistent. As you follow your plan you will be able to make adjustments when you see what works, what doesn't work, but make sure you do those things slowly and carefully without being inconsistent. I think the plan is important for the parents it's easy to get upset when LO is crying and feel like you don't know what to do a plan tells you!

The plan we used was The SleepEasy Solution. You don't necessarily need a book -- you just need to decide what to do and do it. (I would recommend this book, though.)

That being said, the plan should be simple. You do a bedtime ritual and put LO down in her cot. Say good night and leave!

Make sure you time the intervals exactly at first. I used 5, 10 and then 15 but you could make it 20 if you think that'll be better. (Later, when you've cracked it, you will probably be able to do this by feel rather than the clock.) Progressing to longer intervals over several days is probably good, too. Just pick one and go with it.

When you do your checks, don't touch your baby but use your voice to soothe her. Don't stay more than 30 seconds. (The one exception I make to this is I might lay her back down if she is sitting or standing up.) I don't make eye contact. Sometimes I just go to the door of her room and say, "DD, it's time to rest. It's time to sleep."
Be boring so there's no "reward" to waking up.

If she sounds like she's quieting down, consider skipping the check. If she starts up again, crying properly, start timing the interval again.

I would suggest doing bedtime as the first try at CC. Nighttime sleep is a lot easier to fix. If she has had her normal naps (however you do them) she will be best prepared to learn a new way to fall asleep.

The next day, start using your plan on the naps. Naps take longer to sort out so don't be discouraged if it takes a week or so. At her age your DD probably needs 2 naps -- one about 2.5 hours after waking up in the morning and then again about 3 hours after waking from morning nap.

I don't know about dummies but my instinct is to not bother with it. If you're doing the tough work of sleep training, you might as well fix all the problems at once.

Obviously don't start this when LO is ill, cutting a tooth, or hitting a developmental milestone (like standing up, etc.).

CC worked better than anything else we had tried and it resulted in way less crying. It is so nice to lay her down and leave, knowing that she knows how to settle herself to sleep.

Sorry I've written an essay -- good luck!

[samoa]

Agree with Teapot13 on not touching your baby when you go into the room. Usually if she is sitting up I will lay her back down, say "it is time to go to sleep, goodnight", and walk out again.

[LittlebearH]

I have got her comforter out, am still undecided on the dummy.

I think we are going to get rid of it at night but maybe let her have it for her daytime naps for the time being at least. She is going to be tired on Saturday so at least she will get some easier sleep.

God I am dreading tomorrow eve. But keeping the goal in sight!

[Mumcah]

Good luck LittlebearH....keep us updated.

We did CC with our DD at 12 months.It worked well,in two nights but it was hard listening to the crying.Just remember they're crying in protest.

[LittlebearH]

4 hours to go until kick off...

I am nervous already. Especially as I think she may be teething. But DP has booked time off work so no going back.

Will let you know how it goes. Oh and we decided to get rid of the dummy too. Poor DD!

[LittlebearH]

What a night....here is what happened....

Went down at 6.55pm threw up,changed bed cried until she fell asleep at 7.33pm

Woke at 11.20pm,pood her nappy big time, cried until falling asleep at 1.05am

Woke at 1.55am cried until falling asleep at 2.40am

Woke at 4.40am cried until falling asleep at 4.50am

Woke at 5.20am cried until I got her in bed with me at 6.50am and slept til 7.34am

It was hell and we are all shattered.
She seems to have a slight chesty cough, may be from all the crying??

[seeker]

I honestly don't think this is the right thing to do - sorry. She is distressed, you are distressed...what good is it doing any of you? If she's teething, coughing and she threw up and produced a mega nappy in the night, then it does sound as if she's a bit below par - why not take her into bed with you? That way you all get more sleep, which is the object of the exercise, surely?

[LittlebearH]

I know what you are saying Seeker but have read my OP? We are all at wits end. I am on anti deps things are so bad. People who have done this said it is horrid but the long term benefit for her and us is the main goal. She doesnt know how to fall asleep on her own.

[seeker]

I did read your op, and I really feel for you. I think that's why I'm wondering whether this is the right way forward - particularly if you dd is a bit poorly at the moment. It just seems to me that it's going to push your stress levels even higher, to be honest. Is co-sleeping not an option? I think the problem with cc is that the people it works for are pretty evangelical about it, but you don't hear about the people who gave up, or for whom it didn't work. And there are plenty like this - I suspect a majority.

Even the most enthusiastic cc proponents (and you don't really sound like one of those!) say you shouldn't do it if your child isn't completely well.

I'm sorry I can't offer any real help - I still think co-sleeping coud help, but I realize that's not for everyone.

[LittlebearH]

I do understand but co sleeping is no good in our house. We have a std double bed and DP is 6ft4 and I am 5ft8 so there is little room and and DP has done more than his fair share of sleeping on the sofa that it has done his back in. Not to mention the rows it can cause of her ruling me and her getting used to co sleeping than sleeping in her own bedroom.

CC is the only thing left to try. If after 7 days and no improvement then I will admit defeat.

I have spent the last 9 months going to bed at 8pm. I dont go out, no one can babysit and my relationship with DP is suffering. I know that this sounds as if it is all about me but I want DD to have a good nights sleep too. All this broken sleep does none of us any good.

[seeker]

Ok - I understand you feel you have no choice. But..but..but.

Do make sure you're not being pressured into doing something you don't really want to by someone else. People your dd's age can't "rule" anyone else - or at least, only in that their needs have to come first for a while.

It doesn't last long, honestly.

[Teapot13]

Sorry to hear you've had a bad night.

Everyone in the family needs a good night's sleep -- it is not in your daughter's interest to let your relationship with DP suffer.

I think you are right to persevere if you think this will work for you but if you suspect DD is under the weather (or teething, which I think you mentioned) it would be better to try it a different time. I know you're desperate to get this sorted but it will be easier when she's well.

Controlled crying worked well for us, so I'm not criticising that at all.

One thing -- if you are doing CC, it will be easier on your child if you don't give up and bring her into your bed to sleep. She won't understand why you sometimes pick her up and sometimes leave her in her cot.

[seeker]

Could I very gently suggest - and please please ignore me if this is hugely unhelpful - that when you are talking about a 9 month old baby, then parents should BOTH be committed to any course of action. Neither parent should have to do something they don't want to because the other parent is putting their needs ahead of the baby's and putting the pressure on. Littlebear, you say that there are rows because your dp says the baby is "ruling you". This suggests to me that the CC idea is coming from him, not from you. Don't be pushed into anything you don't want to do.

[babyjordan]

Hi LittlebearH, I know this is a little late but what happened with the sleep training? I have a 8 month old and am trying a gentler version of CC so would like to know if you continued after the first night